Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: Natural-media "brushes"...VS. stencils, glitter, e

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    South Africa
    Gallery
    View images
    Posts
    42

    Natural-media "brushes"...VS. stencils, glitter, e

    I do very much like the cool little features added to Artrage 2.5.

    However, although glitter and stencils etc..., are all wonderful little features, originally I was under the impression that Artrage was to be focusing on being a "natural media" type software.

    I think what Artrage definitely needs is to focus on improve natural media effects with it's brushes. We desparately need more true to life painting tools, brushes with all different but real world type brush-heads ( i.e. round brush-heads, flat brush-heads, rigger type brush heads for long detailed stroke work , etc ...) .

    Having a flat brush would require the stroke not tapering from small to large when using pressure sensitive tablets. The line would then be for consistent, but a setting needed to have the "pressure sensitivity" of the tablet pen control how much pant is applied, or maybe it's transparenty.

    Also would be proper blending tools to realistically blend paint, using different ways, such as dry brush, using smooth soft brush effects, or using more bristle typr (hard/rough) brushes.

    There are many different kind of blending methods that need to be considered, eg. scrumbling or glazing ( where if glazed with oil and a soft brush in real world, will not produce and obvious egde).
    Which is another natural media brush requirement, having to be able to set how "soft" or "hard" the edge of the stroke will be.

    I hope natural media similation is the main focus for the next artrage.
    Cosmicfxx

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Gallery
    View images
    Posts
    101
    However, although glitter and stencils etc..., are all wonderful little features, originally I was under the impression that Artrage was to be focusing on being a "natural media" type software.
    I share your distaste for the glitter tool...I'd like to see the slot removed and the ruler tool put in it's place. I think it's a bit shlocky, and don't see anyone doing any serious work with it, even though it is technically a "natural media" tool.


    But I'm not sure I understand how stencils aren't "natural media" tools. If I'm sitting at my desk and need to draw a "perfect" circle or straight line, I have to reach for the bottom of my coffee cup or a ruler. I think they're a pretty brilliant concept for a natural media program to let you achieve precision strokes in an organic , natural fashion... though perhaps lacking a bit in execution at the moment. When I need a perfectly straight line in real life, I can't just hold down "shift"....I need another "natural media" tool: the straight edge.


    Unless your point of view is that there shouldn't be any provisions at all in AR for precision strokes, which would make AR distinctly underpowered compared to even the most rudimentary "natural media" tools, I don't see stencils and guides compromising the identity of AR as a "natural media" program...quite the opposite. They just need bit of polish on their present functionality.


    We desperately need more true to life painting tools, brushes with all different but real world type brush-heads ( i.e. round brush-heads, flat brush-heads, rigger type brush heads for long detailed stroke work , etc ...) .
    I also disagree that AR "desperately needs more tools". That is the way of bloat. I've got Painter when I need entire menus of redundant tools. AR would be best served by continuing to improve basic stroke behavior, adding a couple more customization options to the basic tools (like brush shape), and providing a way to store/recall personal presets at a touch.


    The only basic "natural media" tool I can think of the AR couldn't do a reasonable approximation of with a brush shape control, and tweaking the settings, would be Watercolors, and in this case, they're not alone. Of all the "watercolor" toolsets I've seen over the years, I've seen plenty that are interesting tools in their own right, but none that are a truly convincing simulation. I think such a program would almost be dedicated to watercolors, and nothing else.

    Also would be proper blending tools to realistically blend paint, using different ways, such as dry brush, using smooth soft brush effects, or using more bristle typr (hard/rough) brushes.
    And finally, AR has perfectly reasonable blending tools, for anyone who has decent painting technique. Set your brush load to zero to dry brush wet paint, load up on thinner and reduce pressure over dried paint(or a second layer) to glaze, and experiment with different knife settings to see all the different blending effects you can achieve. The new "soft" setting on the pallette knife even gives you that ugly fuzzy "digital smudging" you see in other programs, if that's what youre after.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    South Africa
    Gallery
    View images
    Posts
    42
    Well, obviously many artists have many different techniques of painting.
    When I "paint" in the real world, I require paint brushes of varing sizes and shaves to achieve desired affects. When I work in a Natural media software from with my wacom tablet, I too require the "paint brushes of varing sizes and shaves to achieve desired affects".

    Rulers are fine and "cute", but as has been requested in other posts , a simple line tool, would work Much easier and better.

    I love the open and friendly interface of Artrage . I have tried a trial of Corel Painter, but Do not like the interface and neither the over-bloated settings of their brushes.
    However, being able to customize some of the main brushes and being able to save them , Along with Painter amazing variety of brush types, gave me far more ability to similate real world painting.

    However again ... at the price of $379.00 USD :shock: , I personally can not afford that, and I'm sure many others couldn't too. I think Painter itself is way over priced, and their technical support sucks.
    And Artrage I think is actually under priced, and I'd definitely be prepared to pay more for a more "natural media" ( where it comes to brushes for actual painting), hopefully not too distant future version.

    So, scott, am not asking for another Painter, with way too many menus and settings, just for a variety of real world paint brushes(shape; softness to hardness control; etc) and paint effects that can be customized basically where need and then saved, which for a real artist, would seem to be more important than rules :roll: , which again, would work much better if AR had a simple line tool.

    Thank you 8)
    PS. and a proper blending tool is defintely needed for different types of blending i.e. soft , bristle type, sponge type etc...
    Cosmicfxx

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Gallery
    View images
    Posts
    101
    Rulers are fine and "cute", but as has been requested in other posts , a simple line tool, would work Much easier and better.

    Well, I don't think the ruler tool works as well as it *could*, and hopefully eventually *will*. But it's much more useful than a simple line tool, it keeps with the Artrage philosophy of stroking by hand rather than automation, and I think you do the developers a disservice by dismissing it as "cute" after they undoubtedly put a lot of work into this unique functionality. I don't see how you can bemoan some imagined slight to a "natural media" philosophy, and then say AR would be better off with an "auto-line" feature instead of the ruler or any of the guides, for that matter. Artrage has always been about fidelity to a certain simple experience, rather than "easy for easy's sake".

    Some things I do with the ruler that I *cannot* do with an "auto-line" tool (not that I'm opposed to one in *addition* to the ruler)

    1. Draw or paint straight lines like an artist, with human hands, that show signs of human imperfections and soul.
    2. Plot the pivot point, even off page, and draw out perfectly calculated radial lines for vanishing points and deep perspectives, again with a "human" quality to them, in a much more accurate fashion than a simple "straight line" tool. Then leave it "pinned" there, out of sight, for continued reference should the need arise, while I bring in another ruler.
    3. Set my angle, then draw out multiple mathematically parallel lines, again, with a human quality.
    4. Measure distances for scale for technical drawing and design work, or proportion off my image for compositional reasons, because its rather brilliantly, a *ruler*.


    And that's just with the ruler, not to mention any of the other drafting tools that mimic the real tools I use on my drawing table every day. Not to mention the custom "auto stencil" capability that serves for custom friskets and masks for airbrushing.



    They are not perfect. The stencils are a bit cumbersome right now. Ideally, I'd like to be able to automatically drag the ruler out to ballpark length and rotation by holding down a single key, then fine tune manually if needed, rather than going into an entirely seperate menu and dragging it out and placing it. I'd also like to be able to decrease its opacity much more to see through it better, and I wish the cursor would hug the edge of the stencil like the stroke does. The custom stencil functionality could be expanded into friendlier, full-blown masking.

    But I absolutely applaud the stencil functionality, and am very thankful for the effort the devs put into it, and appreciate how they preserve the artrage "natural media" philosophy.


    I respect that you want more and more, people always do. It would be nice if you could seek it without being quite so dismissive to these innovative tools that were sorely needed by the program, and which I personally find very useful to my work, as well as charming. I'm sure the AR devs will continue to improve their basic paint behavior and add new tools as they feel they fit with the AR philosophy, like they always have.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    South Africa
    Gallery
    View images
    Posts
    42
    hi Scott

    I'm definitely not against all the new features in AR 2.5 (i.e. the rulers , stencils etc...) .
    As I said originally ...
    ...although glitter and stencils etc..., are all wonderful little features...
    ... I think they are wonderful features , and I applaud AR team for 2.5 as I have always applauded them for great work and a great product.

    Also with regards to what you mentioned in your first post ...
    Unless your point of view is that there shouldn't be any provisions at all in AR for precision strokes, which would make AR distinctly underpowered compared to even the most rudimentary "natural media" tools, I don't see stencils and guides compromising the identity of AR as a "natural media" program...quite the opposite
    ... I definitely did not say that at all. I do not for one moment think that stencils and rules "compromise" AR's identity at all, and again, it's a Wonderful addition to a natural media program as well as original.

    Just as a fine artist, for me to replicate working in the real world, I need the same fine kind off art tools that I use in the real world.
    When 2.5 came, I was very impressed with the new features , but honestly was a bit disappointed :cry: too with the lack of new features with relation to realistic fine art brushes.
    As I said I was under the impression (personally) that this was the way AR would go, but they didn't.
    So even although I was then disappointed, there was still lots of respect for the AR team for what they did come up with.

    And thus, I am pleaing now for the brushes etc.

    Thanks
    PS. Scott, thanks for your input, very much appreciated, ... I will be trying out those stencils and rulers more in the future when I have more time. :wink:
    Cosmicfxx

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •