To Trace Or Not To Trace. Whether Tis More Practical To. . .

[D Akey]

I had an interesting conversation with a group of artists (professional) and it was their opinion that if you could not draw, then you could not trace. The idea being that if you don't have the idea to begin with that no amount of aid is going to hide that fact.

I have, for years, seen the argument bounce back and forth over at wetcanvas and artpapa along with the old chestnut "digital is not REAL art". Well on the latter if you scan it and upload it, you have created digital art so get over that one.

Tracing is more complex---i have seen some people just brazenly copy something by tracing but for me, where's the fun it that--also, i will draw an object over and over to get it right (i have three volumes of sketchbooks that are nothing but top hats done during my infatuation with the French impressionism period)---I will trace a drawing of mine to transfer it to a canvas and if I can't get a thumb (hands truly suck for me) right, I might trace an outline to put me on the right track.

But in the end, if you trace something and don't attempt to make it your own, you might as well just head over to the church and rub a tombstone. A tracing can be the first step in a really cool journey.

I'm mostly referring to the point about the professional artists talking about tracing that you mentioned. This is a most interesting topic and your points are very good.

There are lots of ways to trace from exact literal to it being a starting point and far looser or distorted depending on the end the artist is after. You can pivot their joints and move things about for composition, you can composite lots of elements, you can use it as something to later work over as a starting point, or they can use tracing in the manner a photo retoucher might, where they start far later in the process over a photo and enhance or manipulate an image that's closer to a finish.

I pretty much agree that if one can't draw or doesn't know structure they can only safely be literal when tracing the drawing down, and if they're really new at art, they may not know which end of the pencil to hold, but that green state doesn't last forever.

But tracing has its place. It's only one little step in the evolution of a picture.

I've used it most of my career when realism was what the end product was. I wasn't a fine artist. While I could draw well (even taught drawing classes for a while) tracing was faster and I wasn't out to prove I could draw. I knew where I was going and just went straight there using my familiar working methods. I was selling a service giving the client what they wanted in the most efficient way I could manage. I did and do experiment from time to time, but not so much when I'm doing a job.

In my free times, all bets are off because when I'm doing something new I'm not necessarily an expert until I get mileage in that direction. And that process of doing something new reflects back on people who don't yet know how to draw doing tracing. I personally am of the opinion that people who trace a lot learn how things should look and over time acquire those skills.

I also believe that if you get a tracing that it's merely step one. And one can also be learning anatomy and how to create volume and work with color and texture through the painting stages. And there's a universe of things to learn and play with after the drawing is in place. If someone is in the painting stage over a poor tracing, they will find it out in the paint phase when the eyes are cockeyed or whatever. So there's a sort of drawing going to happen along the way even after the original tracing is no longer visible.

So hanging in there will grow skill because one's art will naturally evolve into its own form, and doing things in a non-logical way could be frustrating to the max or it could help the artist come up with a unique style. We have to assume that most (not all) people who are motivated enough to keep at doing art will also be in the world looking through the eyes of an artist (which happens far earlier than becoming expert) and will learn by observing both things around them and looking at other people's work with an eye to assimilate tricks and techniques.

So not knowing how to draw is only a temporary condition if people stick with it. So I'm thinking what the professional artists are talking about when they say you have to know how to draw to be able to trace is true if the criteria is managing a professional look right then and there. But I also suspect that they would have to agree that people grow any time they have a pencil in hand and are motivated. Taking classes and knowing the tried and true methods (learning to draw etc) does help to shorten the learning curve though.

[Gms9810]

Well this has become rather lively. It seems that we're all of the opinion that
A - Tracing is not a cardinal sin and is ok.
B - Digital is indeed a genuine media
C - Some so called professionals are Baboons with delusions of grandeur who are in fact mentally challenged narcissistic Planarians.

I feel better now.
As far as wet on wet, if Bob Ross says it's cool then it's cool. Nuff sed.

[Catmandolin]

I hope that baboon comment was not directed at me--LOL :-)

Wet on Wet always sounded to me me like a really sloppy kiss but the technique has been around for ages--nothing wrong with it except that I am exceptional at making an equally exceptional messes of that technique. When it comes to watercolor, I prefer drybrush--just my personal druthers.

Maxfield Parrish did his own photography--many of his women were, in fact, based on photos of himself and he did trace--sort of--using a mimeograph machine and a projector. Big Deal--I'm still and always will be a loyal fan.

Someone mentioned tracing a photo of a dog--honestly, if you are doing work for a client and its their dog, then trace away but in my experience dog owners make for lousy submitters of reference photos partly due their love of their snookums and partly due the the aerial like photos they get as a a result of standing up and shooting down. Whoever took the pic on this forum knew what they were doing--it's an excellent portrait.

But regarding using photos--a rule of thumb--once you have traced or even just hand copied from a photo--always make sure you check and correct your perspectives especially when doing buildings---you will love yourself for it even if you are not a narcissist HAHAHA!

[hildee]

I said this in another post months ago, but I happen to be the last one who commented in that thread - no one had the temerity to take it further with me lol....and I quote myself:

Tracing in AR is a lot different from other programs. It's not cloning. It takes a lot of work but it's so satisfying. It picks up the colours but not easily. I do a rough first then go in for the details, can take hours. So to me it's not cheating because it's all in the handling of the brush as to where the colour goes/stays, the program is not doing it for me like cloning does, and that's not easy. I like a challenge and I'm glad AR has a different way of going about "tracing".

[Enug]

Made earlier this year - I used AR tracing function - using colours from the image. Sticker Spray - 09 Oil pastel brush from the Starter Pack.

It was a fun exercise but I would never claim it as art - not my version anyway.

William Bouguereau - Young Shepherdess

[Gms9810]

I couldn't claim it as mine either, which would be a temptation considering how good it is. I use colors from the images too. I've tried to use my photos as much as possible. Sometimes it's not practical if for instance I wanted to draw a tiger. My wife said no more pets, period.

[Enug]

What are your thoughts on 'smudge' painting - pushing around the paint on a photograph with smudge brush in the case of Painter/PSP or knife in AR - to give the effect of a painting from a photograph.

My view is that it's OK if it's your own photo and that you mention how the effect was achieved when showing the 'painted' result. Once again I don't consider it art and it shouldn't be posing as original.

I did this in PSP.



I found a discussion on something similar http://forums.artrage.com/showthread...3-Smudge-overs but I'm not sure if they were putting fresh paint over the photo or doing what I described above.