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Thread: [RESOLVED] Windows 8 Samsung Slate - stroke lag (and other Bugs with tablet settings)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Berlin
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    [RESOLVED] Windows 8 Samsung Slate - stroke lag (and other Bugs with tablet settings)



    Problem: The beginning of a pen stroke starts with an offset. It's probably a driver or Windows problem, but there are still some issues with ArtRage itself.

    image attachment: Strokes startet on the vertical line, the faster the bigger the gap. smoothed tools seems to make it even worse.

    My system:
    Samsung Series 7 Slate
    Windows 8 Pro, freshly installed 2 days ago
    Win8 Driver package from Samsung
    • Samsung Update App says: "Digitizer Driver Ver. 7.1.0.1"
    • Win8 Device Manager says:"Wacom Device Ver. 1.1.0.6"
    • Task Manager says: TabletServiceISD, Tablet Service for ISD & Tablet User Module...

    ArtRage 3.5.5 Pro
    everything up to date

    I Tried:
    -Flicks are turned off.
    -Turning off Press&Hold for Rightclick: Doesn't really help with the missing start, but messes up the UI of Artrage. Clicking Buttons like "New Layer" with the pen freezes ArtRage, Color-Picker however is fine - and using the finger for the UI is alright too.
    - Turning off Touch Input (in Samsung Settings): No effect.
    Settings in ArtRage:
    - Realtime Pen off: seems to make no difference.
    - WinTab off: Greatly REDUCES LAG (but not entirely), however the pressure is limited from "extremely light" to "very ligh".
    - Precise Tablet: Also seems to make no difference.
    - Win7 Touch Gesture off: Extremely Bugged: When using the Pen, the Program freezes for a while and produces a single Dot only. Interestingly this is exactly the same behaviour I get with Adobe Flash CS6. Moreover I did run Flash without this bug in the Win8Preview with obscure, downloaded Wacom drivers - which just confirms that the official Win8 Wacom Driver from Samsung is somehow faulty. BUT I already had the Artrage stroke lag bugs in the Preview Version too (but not as severe).
    - I also tried a couple of combinations, but not systematically and none worked anyways.

    Another image attachment: Different tests with 1. Wintab on, 2. Wintab off, 3. Realtime on only, 4. Realtime and precise... Tools are the same: ink pen, felt tip pen, pencil isn't visible when wintab is off. Text is "Hello World". It's very much impossible to write with the delay.

    May be related to these threads:
    http://www2.ambientdesign.com/forums/showthread.php?39509-Windows-8-Consumer-Preview-Stroke-Delay
    http://www2.ambientdesign.com/forums/showthread.php?30729-Stroke-Lag


    I will continue to research and test this and let you know if I find a solution. I guess installing some other wacom driver will work, but this will be my last resort since fiddling with those drivers always messes up something.
    Let me know if you need more detailed information.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by art.anti.de; 10-05-2013 at 03:08 AM. Reason: Solution, because I hate to google problems without solutions.

  2. #2
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    Dot Test

    Click image for larger version. 

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    A quick Dot test. Slow dots are normal (light pressure too). Quick dots are problematic:
    Dots with a change of position in between don't show up.
    Dots without movement, on top of each other, are fine. However the first few dots are ignored.
    Pressure with all quick dots was rather high.

    I also noticed that the selection tool is affected, too.
    Color Picker, Text and Fill are okay.

    I just did some tests with quick dots in a line (high pressure):
    It seems that some tools "lose" fewer dots:
    - Watercolor dots are extremely small, but it looks like (almost?) all of them are on the paper
    - Paint tube and paint roller miss only a few
    - Oil brush is one if the worst

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Location
    New Zealand
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    Thanks for the detailed information. I'm going to have to spend some time looking over it all but in the short term the system you are using should work with the following settings:

    1. Wintab Off.
    2. Realtime Stylus On.

    Wintab is generally for external digitisers, Realtime Stylus is the Win7/8 standard for integrated digitisers like the screens on tablet devices.

    Some other things we have found relating to settings suggest the following additions to that list:

    3. Precise Tablet On.
    4. Flicks Off.
    5. Tap and hold right click helper Off.
    6. Multithreading On.

    There is a chance that the driver combination is causing some problems there, we have reported a problem with drivers to a number of hardware vendors recently that can cause erroneous strokes and other issues but most of those can be resolved by turning on Precise Tablet mode to change to high resolution input. Flicks and the right click helper have both caused the RTS system to send odd pressure data in the past and turning those off may help.

    Multithreading is included here mainly to double check that it is on - If it's off the stroke processing may be slower. The speed of strokes does seem to cause some missed stroke events in some cases and we're looking in to this. We believe it relates to the processor being tied up at the time the stroke starts, and we have observed it in other applications as well during testing so it doesn't appear to be a specific ArtRage issue.

    I would be careful installing drivers directly from Wacom. The drivers that come with your tablet tend to be post-edited by the tablet vendor to ensure proper support for the system on the specific device, and installing Wacom specific drivers may cause issues with support for various features.

    Hopefully that can help while we look in to it. From what I've seen so far it looks like there are some driver issues with a number of devices running Win8 currently and while we're looking at workarounds internally, any workaround we introduce may cause problems if the driver is suddenly fixed so we're trying to avoid rushing something that may cause additional problems.
    Matt
    ArtRage UI
    Ambient Design.

  4. #4
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    Confirmed. I just tried only Realtime Stylus and Gestures ON, with Hold-to-rightclick OFF (important) and the gap is gone. There is still some lag when starting a stroke, which will be filled with a straight line: See the circles and curved strokes in the attached image.
    I will try now to activate Precise, too and see if this corrects the circle issue.

    There is however still the issue with the UI, which only works with finger touches when hold-to-rightclick is off. But that's the lesser evil compared to the gaps.
    I also noticed that the pressure isn't very sensitive. That means that it gets dark very quickly and medium pressure results in almost full black. But this seems to be the problem of the factory default pressure curves (I reset my stylus preferences). Will try to change this later, too.

    Test with Realtime Stylus, Precise Tablet and Touch Gestures ON, everything else off:
    Sadly, there is a small gap again. But the curves and circles are better. See second attachment.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by art.anti.de; 11-19-2012 at 04:58 AM.

  5. #5
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    this works best

    The strange pressure sensitivity was indeed caused by the default settings (to customize the sensitivity: google "pressure curve tool").

    I think the settings
    Ctr-to-Zoom-OFF, RealtimeStylus-ON, Wintab-OFF, Precise Tablet-OFF, TouchGestures-On, Windows Flicks-OFF, Windows Press and Hold - OFF
    work okay. The issues with the curves and the interface are something I can get used to.


    One more strange thing: I made some very light strokes right on the paper and everything is fine and even. But when I draw light strokes on another color, the start is clearly a bit stronger (with crayon tool). See attachment. But that has probably nothing to do with the driver stuff. Maybe it's even normal for the crayon, since this happens only with crayon.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by art.anti.de; 11-19-2012 at 05:45 AM.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the info! Regarding the crayon tool, that's correct - there is a certain amount of blending which occurs with this tool so you will see that effect. As an alternative, you could use the chalk tool to reduce this.
    Dave
    Resident Bug-Hunter
    Ambient Design

  7. #7
    hey,

    I think I could help you

    btw. I reported this issue long time ago. I even made the same test as you but my link to the image is dead.

    http://www2.ambientdesign.com/forums...t-on-tablet-pc



    I own asus ep121, similar tablet, also with win8 pro.

    So, try this:

    1)In ArtRage preferences, input section Disable multitouch (that last option) and Wintab.
    2)Install drivers from ep121 forum. This drivers works and gives you possibility to use "perfect calibration trick", you will love it.
    http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/ep12...ndows-8-a.html (Wacom pen)




    IF you will have any problems try to read ep121 forum, with this drivers and tabcal trick drawin on this machine is 200% better.



    BTW. AR team: after switching from win7 to win8 we lost possibility to pinch&zoom (I mean with multitouch off there was still pinch&zoom). That was a bug or not but that worked on win7.

  8. #8
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    You'd need multitouch enabled for pinch / zoom gestures. In Win 7 I believe that the pinch gesture was mapped to the old mousewheel event which meant that it would automatically call zoom.
    Dave
    Resident Bug-Hunter
    Ambient Design

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
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    Sorry to bump an old-ish thread, but this thread seem to have documented the problem best. I used to suffer this problem, but seem to have found a fix. You don't need to disable any flicks or press+hold to remove the lag, but rather have the following settings. Cursors on precise, Input Device: Ctrl+Mousewheel = Zoom On, Use Realtime Stylus On, Use Wintab Off, Precise Tablet On, Windows 7 Multitouch On. Putting the cursor on Precise seems to remove the lag, and the Input Device settings seems to fend off any pressure and multitouch incompatibilities. My device is an HP tm2t, Wacom enabled and with those settings, everything is set to stock in the control panel with the latest Wacom drivers that's compatible with Windows 8. I have pressure working 100% in ArtRage and also multitouch is working (smooth zoom and free page rotation). Maybe others would have success with these settings as well. The only downside I could think is you lose seeing how big the tool you are using is, but at least you don't suffer pen lag anymore.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    "this works best" doesn't work for me

    I've tried art.anti.de's solution, which gives me both the freezing behavior AND the late start to strokes.

    Turning off multitouch fixes the late start to strokes, but I can't get it to work without freezing.

    I'd originally thought the behavior was just a part of getting used to a tablet, but the other day I noticed other applications don't have the problem. Now it drives me crazy.

    Is a fix still being worked on?

    (Samsung 700T, Artage 4.0.4)

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