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Thread: Some minor AR + Wacom + Vista64 weirdness.

  1. #1
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    Some minor AR + Wacom + Vista64 weirdness.

    I did a search on vista and got a range of issues, but didn't find anything about this specifically on the forums. I realize running 64 bit OS is asking for weird little issues, and AR may not even officially support it...Im just curious if it's a known issue, and if it can be easily remedied.

    AR 2.519(current)full version installs and runs fine on Vista 64 Ultimate with Wacom intuos 3 (current 64 bit drivers/default config) except:


    1. When I try to navigate(rotate/ pan) the canvas using any of the space, space/alt keyboard functions, it works fine with the mouse, but when I click to drag with the pen it doesn't recognize the combo and just toggles the UI on and off instead.
    2. I figured it might have something to do with Vistas in-built tablet support functions conflicting with native wacom/AR interaction. Indeed I was able to get the alt+space+pen drag rotate function to work by going to Control Panel>Pen&Input devices > Pen Options >"Press and Hold" pen action > settings, and disabling that function. It seems by default, on a tablet install, Vista is set to treat holding the pen down as a "right click", for whatever reason.

      Upon disabling this, all the navigation functions work properly in AR. However:
    3. Then the auto eraser function you get from using the eraser end of the pen no longer functions in AR. If you use the eraser end, it just continues to use the selcted tool. This problem is AR specific...the Eraser function still works in Photoshop and Painter. If I re-enable the "press and hold right click" function, the eraser end functions normally again, but the canvas nagivation problem is back).

      This issue was tested both in native and XP compatibility mode.



    It's not a huge deal...Im sure I can find an alternate mapping solution in my wacom config utility, or just do without pen flipping. Vistas tablet support features are intrusive, but just helpful enough to keep me from wanting to uninstall them altogether. I'm really more curious if anything, and thought I should at least report this.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Interesting! Thanks Scott, that's an unusual behavior you've noticed there. The difference between us and Painter / Photoshop on Vista is that we're using Microsoft's Ink Services, wheras I suspect they're using wintab for their tablet input.

    I've noticed that under Vista, if you turn off press and hold AND pen flicks, that Ink Service applications lose pressure in general, but as long as one of them is enabled it works correctly. However, the stylus flipping is a new one on me so I've taken a note of this and will check it out.
    Dave
    Resident Bug-Hunter
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  3. #3
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    For whatever it's worth, I have Pen Flicks turned off (pretty sure, anyways). Putting that off for some time where I have time to play around and figure if it's worth yet another backround process in Vista. I did activate it and one point, and subsequently turned it back off.


    I'm running the Ink input panel for field entires, which can't decide whether it wants to stay on top of AR or not(offscreen or otherwise)...it goes awol now and then. Deactivating the input panel in it's native options seemed to have no effect on the issue in the original post.


    I should probably clarify, the versions of Painter and Photoshop I checked against were older versions (9.x and CS2), so they have no Vista specific functionality.


    Im sorely tempted to uninstall all the tablet support features and make do with XP levels of Tablet functionality to elminate these kinds of variables, because it seems sort of buggy all around... but the Ink handwriting recognition *is* kind of nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveRage

    I've noticed that under Vista, if you turn off press and hold AND pen flicks, that Ink Service applications lose pressure in general, but as long as one of them is enabled it works correctly. However, the stylus flipping is a new one on me so I've taken a note of this and will check it out.

    You're right. I just turned Pen Flicks back on, and its the same effect as turning Press and Hold=Right Click back on. The Navigation functions cease working , but the pen eraser comes back. Also, the stroke quality issue. I hadnt even noticed that my stroke quality had tanked with it disabled, with virtually no pressure sensitivity, but now its clearly noticeable, so I guess I'll have to be running with one or the other enbled.


    Also, the tablet input console becomes reliable again, and floats reliably offscreen in the program window, and the little micro input window when opening the "save as" menu comes back up reliably as well.


    So whatever function this is thats problematic for me, Pen Flicks and Press and Hold seem interchangeble in this matter. The remaining problem is just that the SPACE/SPACE+ALT pen drag navigation no longer works.


    CTRL/ CTRL+ALT+Right Click (pen button) DOES work for panning and rotate, if I float the pen just off the tablet surface, so Ill have to train myself to use/map these functions instead.


    For the sake of thoroughness, I should mention this is a dual core AMD/Nvidia system on a fresh Vista install, updated with current windows patches and most recent drivers available.


    Thanks!

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the clarification, Scott! If you decide to use pen flicks, you can set it in the control panel to be as lacking in sensitivity as possible which should help avoid triggering it. I'll take a look at this one here.
    Dave
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    Just by way of a minor little follow up gripe, I find switching to the other navigation functions just a little bit sub-optimal. I have to very carefully make sure I right click (pen button) first, then press ALT, or risk sampling the underlying color and losing my selcted color. A side effect of this is I make a little dot on my canvas everytime I want to move it around.


    Is there any way to extricate these functions from the keys on a program level? Like key assignments in a configuration file somewhere I haven't found yet? Even if I map these functions around on the Wacom, the ALT and right click functions bring so much embedded context with them, I can't escape the problem in this manner.


    Thanks! Sorry for being a pain.

  7. #7
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    For canvas rotation there's a non right-click key combo you can use ( left click + space + alt/option ) if that's any help. We don't have configurable shortcut keys currently although that's something we're considering for the future.
    Dave
    Resident Bug-Hunter
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveRage
    For canvas rotation there's a non right-click key combo you can use ( left click + space + alt/option ) if that's any help. We don't have configurable shortcut keys currently although that's something we're considering for the future.
    Heh, thanks Dave, but the core of my issue is that the left click drag+ Space+alt doesnt work under this configuration with the tablet pen for some reason. Thats what got me started on this crazy trip in the first place

    Anyways, good to hear configurable keys might be on the agenda.

  9. #9
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    Ok, if the minutiae involved in this post hasn't driven you completely insane yet, Space or Space+Alt+*Right* Click drag function *does* seem to still work on the tablet without marking the canvas, or sampling color(as opposed to simple Right click drag or Alt+right click drag, and the strangely non-functional Space or Space + Alt + left click drag), so I'm good.

    I'm really sorry to have documented this slow descent into madness so extensively

  10. #10
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    We like extensive documentation, not to worry! The slow descent into madness doesn't sound as good though!

    Thanks for the details.
    Dave
    Resident Bug-Hunter
    Ambient Design

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