Nick's Rage Against the Machine Spot

[Chuckart]

£6.00 a hour is just above minimum wage Arjen in UK and Nick seems to be working for less and it's that i'm trying to point out to him here


I'm in shock and can't believe he is selling these TOP QUALITY images for £60

[Arjen Vriezekolk]

Hi Chuckart,

I'm in shock too...........

i was working on an illustration myself but just checked here to see Nick's dragon and he did the firebreathing when I noticed Nick's post.....

It made me take an extra teabreak!! Thought I misread his numbers (or accounting...don't know the right word right now..)
Almost a feeling of being angry?! And ashamed for getting paid better......

I know...in the old days you had to suffer for your art.....but hey....it's the 21 first century.....

But I think we all agree that the respect for Nick is now even greater than an hour ago!

Arjen

[Caesar]

Dear Nick, not to go on repeating myself, but You're a really amazing master and, even knowing nothing about commercial issues about illustration market, I think You would deserve to have a far easier life.
Reading the rates above for Your marvels I definitey lost intention to look for some extras out of that as a secondary job!
Maybe You could prepare and publish, when You have less work, a teaching book like those of Gurney (I bought two of them following Your suggestion and I'm enjoying reading the second right now).
I presume he gets some sort of royalty paid for each book of him they sell. Your quality is comparable I'd say. Moreover You have the advantage of English as Your native language, so Your market should be wide enough to get some reasonable and constant extra cashflow.
I wonder whether You may propose Your customers three quality levels to chose in Your forthcoming contracts and set up three different procedures and styles requiring different speed.
Whenever someone has a limited budget he cannot request the most elaborated and valuable illustrations!

[Chuckart]

Nick

Daniel Arnold Mist tuts can be found and purchased herehttp://store.itsartmag.com/iastore/c...&cat=67&shop=1 and if i may, can i suggest you knock some together for Artrage, SketchbookPro, Painter when you have no work and put them up for purchase on It's Art, your website and every other place you visit

[Nickillus]

Hi Arjen, hi Chuckmate,

Thanks for your concerns over the rates of pay for work in educational illustration in the UK. It's not been much different for the 30 odd years I've been in the biz. My biggest problem has always been a lack of speed as said before. WIsh I cold turn out an illo in a few hours as denonstrated beautifully by you Arjen - (nice one too) - but my head just doesn't work like that no matter how hard I hit it with anything to hand - a book, a shoe, the cat.

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Arjen - My good friend and agent Virgil died of throat cancer two years ago - I am with Beehive now. They are the only folk who would look at me when I asked around after his loss. They specialise in educational work so that's whats on offer until I create my own work/projects in my spare time and push that. It is at the bottom end of the payment scale as stated before, but represents what's on offer for my sort of style and pace at present.
Virgil moved in diferent circles but even saying that, let me cite a payment example. Ten years or so ago, work on the puzzle book 'Dragon Quest' paid me £600 per double page spread for really complicated watercolours that took me a minimum of a month or more each and nearly drove me insane. Then I couldn't get paid until I signed a contract that handed ownership of the artwork as well to Usborne Publishing. I've never seen the originals since despite Virgil going to war with them for years over that clause (and he was vey good at war). This wasn't for educational. Yes I've had much better paid work over the years, but my pace is still an issue. At the other end of the scale work I've done for Templar (who are lovely) paid much better rates for the work intiially, then because of the success of the 'ology' series produced disproportionate amounts in subsequent royalties - to the tune of thousands of pounds one year. That's where a royalties deal can be great if on offer - but is totally dependent on sales success. Success of the project is the key factor.

Funnily enough - I may be about to work for Bulgarian publisher next, but the rates of pay aren't necessarily much better than those I'm experiencing here. £100 or so for full page colour plate I think.

Dragon breath? - well I'd be using layers to make some sort of fire/lighting effect - and then perhaps using the glitter brush for sparks that I could work back into and integrate with teh look of the image. The wet and blur blender options would almost certainly be used in the process. Bit non-specific but hope that leans towards what you need. I'd have to see the image you need to for to be more specific. The technique would have to fit in with the chosen style.

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Chuckart - It's the rates for the job - and my lack of speed is the issue. Turn each piece round in a day, 9 to 5 - £300 for five days work. I know I'm being paid peanuts - unfortunately it's where my work style fits. I'm not happy with the rate of course, but the plan is to work through this low point (influenced by the financial climate) to a place where I'm getting better paid work again. It's never been about the money with me, which is probably the problem. I can't just go - well £60 = 10 hours. It's about the image and what I can do before the deadline (which is what they call ego) - which usually means a much lower hourly rate. My own stupid fault. Never said I was smart.

Thank you kindly for the very generous words - but I have no illusions about my work being 'top quality'. I've been around the industry too long and know different. My work is OK, but there are literally thousands of guys and gals out there who blow my image making abilities out of the water, and do it quicker (the swine).

All that said, the way to go is for me to create my own projects and take control. That's the way I'd recommend to any folk these days if at all possible. I have things on the back-burner and even another site under construction to promote some of those ideas to hopefully attract funding. It will be a while yet before it sneaks into the light though.

EDIT - thanks for that link about the tuts site, which turned up while I was scrawling this elongated waffle
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Caesar - Don't you dare let my pathetic feebleness deter you from going for work with your artisitc skills. I'm my own worst enemy in terms of professionalism. I'd never forgive myself if you missed opportnities that might enrich your experience by letting my words sway you against approaching potential clients/outlets. You never know where it may take you. And they may offer a much better rate of pay - Go for it.

[Chuckart]

Nick

Please Stop, because you are underselling yourself. I've seen Rockwells, Lyendeckers, Gurneys work and your stuff is like thiers mate . TOP QUALITY

Give James Gurney, Andy Hepworth or Jon Hodgson a ring or send mail and ask them how much they would charge these educational guys for an illustration like yours.


It's not going to be £60 i'm sure.


Can't remember website name, so can't post what was stated or a link, but Sarg merecat stated in the illustration nuts and bolts tutorial on her blog/website. The average illustration takes around 40 hours, so if thats correct, you are NOT slow.


Edit to add.

The Sarg merecats nuts a bolts tutorial took 35 hours from thumbnals to finish.

[Nickillus]

Aaaargh - Don't set Jon (the machine) Hodson on me. He is so professional he frightens me, despite him being a really good chap and almost a mate. He does do 9 to 5. Don't know if you saw that recent tutorial in DigitalAtist magazine by him, using Artrage metallics. Because they are spanners, they ended up only giving him one day to do it - but he performed and did a stand up job on it. He is a machine I tell you - if a friendly and highly talented one.

Funny that you've quoted three of my absolute favourites as examples to copy ChuckArt - and I've studied Rockwell's and Gurney's technique (very similar). Have enormous admiration for both their art and their professional discipline - and yet my head is set to work totally out of my imagination without the photo and model ref that they use. There may be the real issue. I'm aiming at replicating the believability of their art without the commom sense of using their technique - which may be why it takes me longer - Duuuuuh! There is no hope for me.

Do absolultley appreciate the belief that you seem to express about my images, even if I might not agree with it. I do thank you.
You now have full permission to be infuriated with me - let me just cover the cat's ears. She is a sensitive soul.

Meanwhile - I've dragged the focus way off track for this thread. Supposed to be about the images and their creation. Here's a sketch sheet of a character in development for one of those Back-Burner projectss.

[Arjen Vriezekolk]

And I'm in love with Leonora....

Don't tell anyone...... :-)

Arjen

[Nickillus]

Haha - You really need to get out more Arjen!

[Chuckart]

As you say Nick, thread has veered off track so i'm going to stop my rant after posting this link

http://www.crisdelara.com/commission...nupArt_commiss





And like Arjen i must need to get out more because i'm in love with Leonora Clutterbuck too