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Thread: visual image standard

  1. #1
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    visual image standard

    hi i'm new to this forum and i thought i like to see what you guys think of my idea...

    now after over a year of reading about design and composition in a number of fields ( or tools) like drawing, painting ( abstract and the old masters ) photography and even composition in video/film, i have come up with an idea that will set up an visual image standard that will help artist new and old to visualize the end result that they wish to create.

    basicly it's a list of definitions ( right now ) that i hope to expand apon in a visual medium of my choice ( using works of art as examples, while a MC or mascot talks in front of the camera ) i feel i could use A.M. to create these tutorials ( chapters of different topics )

    i still need to creat the visual examples and finish the face rigging and new cloths for my MC ( my capt obvious is my MC minus the super hero suit)

    the topis are as follows:

    Design elements ( the building blocks of the visual image ) line, shape, values, volume (form), size ( proportion ), texture, and colour.

    Composition principles ( the arangement of design elements ) bounded space / picture plane Space, Unity ( the form or context of the whole image ), Harmony, Contrast, Emphasis/Dominance, Balance, also Compositional grids or perset layout of the image.

    Perspective Choices ( the idea of positioning the viewer in the scene ) Depth ( depth cues, perspective lines) Perspective choices ( distance and position relationships ) image perspective ( 2d 3d ( shallow and deep space ) ) Artist perspective ( realism or abstract )

    these are just the basic's to understanding the image the more advance topics are for another day ( understanding the viewer and why we see want we do and how, physical and mentally,impact, mood, movement, image flow, symbolism, theme ( the artist intentions))

    the basic's is something i feel should be learned by all and i want to start an open dialogue on the topic ( i'm not looking to make money on this ) and i'm not sure how or where i should take my next step.

    my idea is purely from the fact that over the 17 books on the topic of design and composition that i've read all use the similar terms and idea's and the only thing that septerates them are the tools and techinecs used to create the final image, but what connects the final image of any tools used are as follows,

    images are used to comminicate human to human

    images are used to express an idea ( even the most basic image of a stick person holding an apple still converises an idea )

    images use subject matter that are based on the real world around us ( so that the viewer, no matter who can relate to the image )

    this is just a few of the common ground between images of any tool used.

    i'm writing this to get this off my chest, and see any kind of reaction from the world ( i think i'll post this idea in different forums to see if any one else is interested)

    thank you for your time

    Steve Molloy

    i'll keep you posted on my progress

  2. #2
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    I'd suggest that you take care of proper spelling, punctuation and capitalization if you want a serious discussion...

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweedie
    . . . /Snip/
    So where do we stand today? Academic or Non-academic? Or are there a movements in the artworld that I do not know of?
    Where are we today? Hahah. We are in the wild west where everything that works works. . . long as you have a good trigger finger and you're the last gunfighter standing.

    This is the information age. And there are a thousand and one ways to go forward or back. We know so much and people have left a clear very trail if you're looking back.

    Plus technology as a tool is changing all the time, and new ways will open to those who pursue them as extensions of their creative minds.

    Conservative, radical, new or ancient -- it's all the same to me. Bottom line is there is always some level I can appreciate any art on, even if it's simply for the spirit behind the art, should the art have no interest to me at that particular moment.

    And this is art we're talking about -- something that is defined in as many ways as there are people.

    Art is like fire or water, earth or air. It's a prime element in the human world, and as open ended and diverse as any of those elements I've mentioned.

  4. #4
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    Well Sweedie. You're right about those as being two main directions, as broad as they are. But it's still changing.

    Stinkyu111, How about the history of art: BC, AD, and PC?

  5. #5
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    thanks for your time and your replys Sweedie and D akey

    as for History of the world of art ..eck , i did try to write a brief history and found that my knowledge is to limited in this area.

    i am reading a book on the topic by Paul Johnson "Art, a new history " 800 pages and i'm enjoying Paul's take on history

    but there is so much to talk about and the why's and how's are so many, i think it's too hard of a topic.

    there are some key moments in history 1) cave paintings 2) the time of images stop being used as a langauge, for the written word based of the sounds ( around 1600bc ) 3)the idea of the masters of painting looking at there first photograph 4) the start of the 1900's and the wave of new thinkers, most amount of art movements in history. 5) the new photoshop program came out in the 90's rocking the photographic world. 6) in this last 10 years the craziness of different digital tools like paint to 3d models.

    my idea is short video tutorials, that are still along way to go

    i just wanted to see how other's felt about the topic, for the most the replies have been few, but it's ok i see i have alot of work to do and maybe people will be ready, by the time i'm ready

    this basic idea will give way more advance topics like,understanding the viewer, mood, impact, movement, image flow, themes, symbolism.

    thanks again for your time

    i running out the door for lunch

    Steve

  6. #6
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    Well, I would say that there are at least one more main direction that needs to go beside the two Sweedie mentioned. Namely the direction sometimes used in comics and manga.

    I think this direction is completely different from the other two because it is basically all about doing something abstract and still having it feel concrete.

  7. #7
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    Stinkyu111, I applaud your intention. But I can see that a fundamental pitfall may be in the offing. It's a little like missing the forest for the trees.

    I think I would begin by asking myself what I want to accomplish. Why am I doing it. And who would put credence in what I was writing and why.

    If you're doing it simply for yourself then anything is open to do, but such freedom can in itself be working against you.

    Why not simplify. Take a smaller topic and focus on it and see where that goes. Begin by exploring one area and see what you can write about that. It would be a good starting point.

    People who try to cover the history of all time like Will Durant's series tend to become nothing more than compilers of information, which is dull as hell to read. And I love history. When I was really going in depth into an area like the Italian Renaissance in Florence and wanted to reconstruct the things that were going on at the time in that city state, I found that while Durant's books mentioned many historical people and occurrences, he had no real insight into what was going on and so it remained a chronologically accurate, yet empty exercise.

    The value, in my opinion, of looking at history is in making connections and following threads to discover motivations and finding what influences came into play and why. And was that isolated, or does it reflect something essential to us now. Where did they get it right, and where did they become lost. By going too broad one misses the value of looking back entirely.

    And any historian worth his salt can group those relationships for us so that we can see it as well. But it's not always done well. And one certainly cannot do it if they themselves don't get it.

    Be careful of taking on so much if you wish to do anything more than amass volumes of dry data. There are far richer experiences you can create for yourself in art and art history.

    Why not explore a specific movement through a particular artist or group. The things you learn from that would yield much more, I think. And things in that exploration will fill out and blossom based on what you find out. And after you have become grounded in one topic, you can then expand to some day take on something as broad as this. And you will be gaining insights based on something tangible.

    And better still, paint. And then look up artists based on what you want to know because it has some relevance to your art. If you want to really know what art has to offer you have to find the artist inside you.

    There is no substitute.

    Your intention is laudable. A bit more analysis may be in order. Explore what it is you want out of this for yourself, and then maybe you can find an better way to accomplish it.

    Do you want to publish, approach it as a career, answer some burning question, impress others, impress the ladies, what?

    I think some time spent on this introspection will save you years.

  8. #8
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    yes i think comic's are a special category

    the bridge between the still image and the moving imagery of movies and/or videos.

    understanding comics by Scott McCloud is a great book, Scott makes a good study of any field imagery on the why and how to make images comminicate an idea

    most people forget about the comminication part of the image, artist love to express their feeling and idea's, but forget to include the world around them ( abstract thought and idea's, do tend to leave most viewer's out of the loop ) other artist feel that it's good to keep the viewer guessing ( away to particapate in the art )

    i love adstract ( don't get me wrong ) it's just we need to inform the viewer on the design ( or the use of design elements ) the love of image flow, so the viewer can be on the same level as the artist creating art.

    Steve

  9. #9
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    D Akey , you asked why i'm going this?

    i'm a photographer at part and in schooling

    i started scuplting in clay and wiremesh

    i had a friend show me to the internet and the digital world of 3d software.

    i could see so main mistakes in the 3d forums ( the mistakes where so little, but so big at the same time...lack of focus on the final image )

    i felt pretty strong about my skills, but to explain to other how to make the best image, was hard to put into words. so my journey began how do other authors expain there idea's. i had some old books on drawing and photography but i needed more, i found tons of books that slide step the topic of composition, just arrange the props in a way that's pleasing to the eye ( that just doesn't cut it )

    i thought maybe of fields had words of wisdom on the image Painting, graphic design. After read book after book and the authors using the same terms over and over, drawing ( lines and shapes) painting (lines and shapes ) photography ( lines and shapes) film/vedio ( lines and shapes) i could stopping thinking about how all visual images are the same, only the artist and messages are different

    the best way for me to think of it as in music ...7 notes a b c d e f g.
    is the standard starting place for music to start, country to opera

    design elements 7 (notes) line, shape, values, volume(form), size(proportion), texture and colour

    this is not the why and how the image is made, but just a starting place of the image definition ( from the finish image )

    searching for a common language for others to learn from

    Steve

  10. #10
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    there is a fine line between abstract and iconic.

    i'm just saying that most people don't understand abstract, because they are looking for a meaning and no an image doesn't have to have one, but no matter how hard you try, people will put a meaning to your image whether you want it or not. the love of pure lines, shapes and colours is not everybodies cup of tea.

    getting the world to sit back and enjoy design for design sake is the hard part. but it's part of the whole basic language of design

    steve

    i got to go, i'll be back tomorrow

    thanks for the posts guys

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