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Thread: DOs - SquareMess Brushes (brushes 6-8 of 8)

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    440
    Quote Originally Posted by HwyStar View Post
    Question: using my pink tulips painting above as a reference is there any way to have the oil brush not end its stroke to not be sqaure? The starting stroke is round and the ending portion of the stroke should not be flat. It should end round too correct? There is no way to end a round bristle brush with a flat edge in real media painting. Is this the bug you were referring to earlier DO?
    There are a number of issues with the oil brush: blending divergence and saturation artifacting, paint loading affected by zoom, loading having no effect whatever on wet into wet blending, loading generally not conserving volume of paint, back and forth strokes unexpectedly flipping brush (in real life one simply lifts the brush and places it back down for the next swipe), shape of brush contact not rendered properly etc.

    This last one might be what you are encountering. For the oil brush, in the middle of any stroke, the calculation for how paint is laid down and interacts with the canvas is based on a 1D line at right angles to the stroke and having a width based in the "shape" selected and the aspect ratio setting. In real life a thin rectangular brush can be dragged at an acute angle with respect to its orientation (and keeping that orientation fixed), to form what roughly looks like a parallelogram. Try it with the oil brush (make sure rotation is controlled by your stylus so that it is independent of the direction of the stroke, controlled by stylus tilt only , or if you have Wacom's art brush, rotation of the stylus)

    I had previously posted something in a thread about this issue but I cannot find it... bottom line is ArtRage oil brushes do not in fact have square or circular brush contact during the middle of a stroke, it is a line at right angles to the stroke.

    EDIT: posted new thread in Windows OS
    Last edited by DarkOwnt; 05-02-2018 at 12:42 AM.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    Reno, Nevada
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    My God DO! Are you expecting "me" to keep up with "you" and your engineering mind? No way Man!

    Yes, it is the last one you are referring to that has the issue with me and my painting style.

    With the Square Head checkbox unchecked, to me that implies that the brush should be rounded on both sides of the stroke, beginning and ending. Which it is not. It is shaped more like the sail of a sailboat. Round at the top, middle is straight and the bottom is flat.

    This image I just shot says it all. Notice the flat brush ends flat, and the rounded brush is not ending flat? I just painted those stroke for illustration purposes here.

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    Robert Hopkins

  3. #13
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    Apr 2012
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    Interestingly enough, in the real world you are using a "flat rounded" brush.

    Now although it offends me to no end... dab the brush straight down (gently) in the real world and then in ArtRage... do they match?


    Notice that in ArtRage, without setting aspect to a low setting the brush head in ArtRage is actually circular, not flat rounded.

    For a fair test, you really need a circular (round) brush, which is slightly tapered on its surface, so that it makes a circular dab.

    PS And make various kinds of hand motions lifting off so it isn't biased one way or the other.

    PPS And for me, could you make a parallelogram in one stroke?

    Last edited by DarkOwnt; 05-02-2018 at 08:52 AM.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Reno, Nevada
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    I know you have to have a few brushes laying around there somewhere!

    Tomorrow is another day. I will put my flat rounded brush away and look for a "true" round brush. In the past, I only painted with flats and rounded flats and for my presentation, I thought my selection was "good enough" to get my point across for the ArtRage team to see the difference. Depending on the size of ArtRage oil brush used, it looks just like the real oil brush at the begining of the stroke.

    I will try and follow your requests to the letter tomorrow and see what kind of picture is painted. Real and Digital. I'll have to refer to your graphic again to visualize what a parallelogram looks like. I'm tired and it's time for bed. I'm staying on East Coast time even though I am on the West Coast.
    Robert Hopkins

  5. #15
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    Apr 2012
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    440
    Also, since I happen to be tinkering on custom brushes, if you have any ideas for a type of brush stroke or effect, show me (with real paint) and I'll try to make it happen!

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Santiago de Chile
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    3,577
    Thanks a lot for brushes...
    Regards from Chile
    "El arte no reproduce lo visible. Lo hace visible" Paul Klee

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by damasocl View Post
    Thanks a lot for brushes...
    You're welcome!

    Do you like them? Have any feedback or suggestions?
    Last edited by DarkOwnt; 05-05-2018 at 06:15 AM.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Reno, Nevada
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    I have been really busy with work and traveling yesterday. Sorry for not responding.

    I had a look at one of my earlier paintings, using the rounded oil ArtRage brush and its tails were rounded. So, this moring I messed with the settings of my saved Monet Oil brush I created a while ago. It wasn't the settings. I thought it may be the "stiffness" setting and it wasn't that either. It is the angle of the Wacom stylus. If I am holding the stylus at a 90 degree angle compared to the display the tail of the stroke is flat. If I hold the stylus at a 45 degree angle compared to the display the stroke is rounded. I need to slow down my strokes and hold the stylus at an angle to get completly rounded brush strokes. This resolves the "major" issues I am having with the brush.

    I understand DO that you have many other issues with the brush. And that's cool too!

    Here is a quick study that I performed this morning:
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    The left side is at a 90-degree angle and the right-hand side is a 45-degree angle. My bad!
    Robert Hopkins

  9. #19
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    Apr 2012
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    Hmmm. If I had to make a guess, your oil brush is probably set so that stylus pressure affects size. With that setting, how you lift the stylus has an effect on how the end of the stroke looks. I suspect holding the stylus at an angle changes how you lift it and hence the pressure which translates into the size of the brush and that tilt is not directly being used by the algorithm to change how the end of the stroke looks.

    One way to verify this suspicion is to turn OFF stylus pressure control of the size of the brush. This isolates any effect of tilt on the end of each stroke. I'm not on a device right now with ArtRage to test this...

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    440
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkOwnt View Post
    Hmmm. If I had to make a guess, your oil brush is probably set so that stylus pressure affects size. With that setting, how you lift the stylus has an effect on how the end of the stroke looks. I suspect holding the stylus at an angle changes how you lift it and hence the pressure which translates into the size of the brush and that tilt is not directly being used by the algorithm to change how the end of the stroke looks.

    One way to verify this suspicion is to turn OFF stylus pressure control of the size of the brush. This isolates any effect of tilt on the end of each stroke. I'm not on a device right now with ArtRage to test this...
    OK HS I've done the test. Seems like my suspicions are correct.

    Strokes with Red Hue have Stylus pressure Size OFF, Strokes in Blue have Stylus pressure Size ON
    Dark strokes have stylus at 45 degree tilt, Bright strokes have stylus at 90 degrees to surface (straight up and down)
    Low Saturation strokes were made with low-medium lift off speed, High saturation strokes were made with quick lift off speed (while maintaining same tilt angle)


    Click image for larger version. 

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    BTW: Thank you very much for engaging in these in-depth discussions of substance. They are far more interesting, useful, stimulating and inspiring than the run of the mill online banter.

    I love your work BTW.

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