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Thread: Delay - lag while painting

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
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    Delay - lag while painting

    Delay - lag while painting

    i think it is a problem in the program's code?

    if i start painting i always have a delay/ lag, to see the color directly under the brush on my canvas. after a stroke and leave the trigger (mouse, pen) the line is still drawing until its end. it is not possible to draw another color to another edge, because i don't see when it's end.

    what does it mean:
    i just draw a line, the color comes with a delay/ lag of ~ 200ms +
    if i paint in my normal paint program all is fine.
    using since years: Corel Draw's PhotoPaint

    any suggestion to solve this problem?

    my specs:
    classification 7,4
    Windows 7 Ultimate x64
    AMD FX(tm)-6200 Six-Core CPU
    RAM: 24 GB
    GFX: Nvidia Gforce GTX 950

    ArtRage 5.0.4


    thanks for help
    Last edited by inc; 07-04-2017 at 05:38 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Auckland, NZ
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    This *might* just be the stroke gap; I can't see what you're looking at so please bear with me if this isn't it

    Basically, ArtRage calculates from live input as you draw, rather than projecting ahead and mimicking the live input effects, so the area under your brush will not be painted until you move the stylus/brush on past that area (because there are many variables, like whether you lift the brush or run into another colour or change direction... ). Other programs generally just fill in a digital effect that isn't quite accurate, but because their brushes are more digital and less interactive, it's not really obvious the way that would be in ArtRage - which is the problem we have when trying to find a way to get rid of it!

    To tell if this is the problem, make sure you have the Outline cursor active (with the circle/square around your stylus) and try different tool sizes. If the gap is always about the same distance away as the edge of the outline, it's just the 'pending stroke' waiting for input.

    If it's not that...

    If the line continues after you stop moving, and 'catches up', then it's actually lag, so you'll want to look at your memory usage (the type of tool, tool size, canvas size, if your computer is struggling - which it shouldn't be with those specs!). Try a very small canvas vs a very large one and a small brush vs a large one. If you see a difference, it's memory. If you DON'T, then something else is going on (maybe a tablet driver issue).


    So if you find out it's not the stroke gap and not a memory issue, let me know and we'll take a look at your driver settings and see what else might be going on. If it IS a memory issue, it would be good to know what tools/canvas sizes you are using so we know if it's unusual or not (ArtRage uses a LOT more memory than other art programs, so it's very fast for what it is, but may run into issues at smaller sizes than expected sometimes. We're working on improving that in every build, obviously, and I think AR5 is now probably the fastest program out there after Photoshop (which is in its own league!) for intensive brushwork, but I don't want to write this off 'it's just memory' if something else might be going on, either).

    You can post here, or email us directly at support@artrage.com, whichever you prefer.
    Ambient Design Tech Support & Community Manager

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  3. #3
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    Jul 2017
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    Thanks for the reply

    Quote Originally Posted by HannahRage View Post
    This *might* just be the stroke gap; I can't see what you're looking at so please bear with me if this isn't it
    It's all good


    Quote Originally Posted by HannahRage View Post
    Basically, ArtRage calculates from live input as you draw, rather than projecting ahead and mimicking the live input effects, so the area under your brush will not be painted until you move the stylus/brush on past that area (because there are many variables, like whether you lift the brush or run into another colour or change direction... ).
    i understand and could be the best solution to calculate painting. but this is not the main issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by HannahRage View Post
    ... it's not really obvious the way that would be in ArtRage - which is the problem we have when trying to find a way to get rid of it!
    and this is exactly my problem while a draw procedure. it is not accurate enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by HannahRage View Post
    To tell if this is the problem, make sure you have the Outline cursor active (with the circle/square around your stylus) and try different tool sizes. If the gap is always about the same distance away as the edge of the outline, it's just the 'pending stroke' waiting for input.
    currently i use the oil brush in any variation and sizes and have always the problem with lag. i also tried any customs on that brush but it is always the same.
    here is a screenshot from the painting process:


    Quote Originally Posted by HannahRage View Post
    If it's not that...
    If the line continues after you stop moving, and 'catches up', then it's actually lag, so you'll want to look at your memory usage
    i checked the momory (cpu use) while painting 100kb - threads: 12

    Quote Originally Posted by HannahRage View Post
    (the type of tool, tool size, canvas size, if your computer is struggling - which it shouldn't be with those specs!). Try a very small canvas vs a very large one and a small brush vs a large one. If you see a difference, it's memory. If you DON'T, then something else is going on (maybe a tablet driver issue).
    canvas size: 1280x854
    tried a smaller canvas: same issue

    windows = new

    Quote Originally Posted by HannahRage View Post
    So if you find out it's not the stroke gap and not a memory issue, let me know and we'll take a look at your driver settings and see what else might be going on.
    maybe it is possible to send a Debug version. i have no idea whats going on. realtime painting is not possible and it is really annoying.

    Quote Originally Posted by HannahRage View Post
    If it IS a memory issue, it would be good to know what tools/canvas sizes you are using so we know if it's unusual or not
    at the moment i draw a picture only with my mouse. not using the gfx tablet yet.
    my Canvas Size: 1280x854 at 96 dpi - 32 bit

    Quote Originally Posted by HannahRage View Post
    (ArtRage uses a LOT more memory than other art programs, so it's very fast for what it is, but may run into issues at smaller sizes than expected sometimes.
    yes i see it on my sys.

    Quote Originally Posted by HannahRage View Post
    We're working on improving that in every build, obviously, and I think AR5 is now probably the fastest program out there after Photoshop (which is in its own league!)
    hm i don't think so at the moment. because of its immense lagging not so in my currently paintprogram: photopaint and photoshop (not using so often, i don't like it ).



    Quote Originally Posted by HannahRage View Post
    You can post here, or email us directly , whichever you prefer.
    i did here. hope that you read it

    thanks for solving the problem and looking forward.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by inc View Post


    and this is exactly my problem while a draw procedure. it is not accurate enough?


    currently i use the oil brush in any variation and sizes and have always the problem with lag. i also tried any customs on that brush but it is always the same.
    here is a screenshot from the painting process:
    AHA. Okay, that's not lag, and I can see it too now. There are two things happening here:

    1. You're working super super small.
    2. With the Oil Brush.

    Basically, the oil brush is big and clunky and you're working at such a small size that the 'cursor gap' (estimated next bit of stroke) is expanding out past the visible cursor (the cursor is an estimate anyway, so it's never totally accurate). This won't happen if you work with a larger brush size. If you need this level of fine detail, you want the Ink Pen or Pencil tools instead, which are designed for a much smaller scale stroke, and won't have this gap.

    I also recommend working at least twice as big for most purposes; if you're seeing pixels like this, your canvas and brush size are probably too small or you're zoomed in way too far. There are some cases when you'll need a very fine Oil Brush line, but it's better to be working on a larger canvas in the first place.

    This might be an actual weird programming thing we can fix, so I've passed it on for future investigation, but basically, you're pushing the Oil Brush to a purpose it's not really intended for.
    Ambient Design Tech Support & Community Manager

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    Go forth and read the tutorials. Also, check out the featured artists!

  5. #5
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    Jul 2017
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    Hi,
    thank you for your reply. i need that high zoom level

    it is not possible to me, using big brushes on that level. but i am looking forward to nice AR5 program updates.

    best
    Last edited by inc; 07-12-2017 at 09:06 AM.

  6. #6
    just use a small-sized custom brush tool preset and go over the parts than need some accurate rendering/filling in.

    this still would work better if you paint slightly enlarged (150% of the target size is a good start, I'd say.)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    Your pic is really low res. Your system can handle something three or four times the resolution. Try something like 4000 x 3000 pixels. Use bigger brushes.

    Your fine details will use a large enough brush to avoid the problem. This is essentially what Hannah is suggesting!



    PS: If you need to make a low res final product (1200x800 etc.) it really is better to create it at higher resolution and then rescale down (using any graphics program) to the low res version anyway.

  8. #8
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    *nods*

    Digital canvases make it a bit harder to estimate canvas size because you can zoom in and out, but painted on a 1280 canvas for highly detailed work is like trying to use a magnifying glass to paint fine detail onto a postcard instead of just getting a proper wall sized canvas. Go to Edit > Resize Painting and set it to 200% or 400% larger and you should find everything works much better. You simply don't have enough pixels for the detail you want to add in that image.

    A couple of tips in case you haven't found these yet:
    - tools can go up to 500% if you type the size or press shift and drag on the canvas to change the tool size. Use the corner indicator just for finetuning at 0-100% sizes.
    - the View reference window will let you see different zoom levels as you work. Go to the References and open a new View from bottom right icon.
    Ambient Design Tech Support & Community Manager

    This is not my signature.

    Go forth and read the tutorials. Also, check out the featured artists!

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