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Thread: Really weird multitouch with Cintiq Pro 13 on OS X

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    17

    Really weird multitouch with Cintiq Pro 13 on OS X

    Hi!

    I recently grabbed Wacom Cintiq Pro 13 and updated to ArtRage 5, dreaming of having a drawing experience similar to what I get on my iPad with my fineline 2, but like, accurate, and with arbitrary file sizes. But so far, it's been pretty weird...

    - moving the canvas with two fingers doesn't work smoothly or consistently
    - pinching to zoom doesn't really work at all. Sometimes it can zoom out, but I don't think I've managed to get it to zoom in, and most of my pinch gestures are interpreted as movement gestures
    - rotating clockwise works great, but rotating counterclockwise opens display preferences (every time, and only in ArtRage, even if system preferences isn't running)

    Everything works pretty well in Windows 10 (except for the lack of single finger touch rejection, which I understand to be related to windows reporting single finger gestures as mouse events or something), so I'm more or less ok, but ^^^ is pretty weird. Like, display preferences? I don't even understand how that's happening. I also get the feeling that reason touch rejection works so well on the iPad is because when it's set to use a stylus the input events for drawing come from a different channel (ie, a wacom driver instead of iOS). The gestures also work pretty well elsewhere (ie, pinch and zoom work beautifully in Chrome).

    Is there any data I can provide to help fix this? I get the impression that you guys are sick of questions about multitouch but it's also why I upgraded. I'm willing to read api references and learn enough swift/obj-c to write an input event logger if it'll help. I also do this level of programming professionally and would be glad to help if bandwidth is the main issue.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Auckland, NZ
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    1,855
    Can you go to Edit > ArtRage Preferences > Input Device and try turning off 'Cmd + Mousewheel = Zoom' and see if that helps? There's been a change in the Wacom driver, so this may be causing issues.
    Ambient Design Tech Support & Community Manager

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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    17
    Turning that off fixed the zoom, but moving the canvas is still weird, and counterclockwise rotation still brings up display preferences.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_reidpants View Post
    Hi!

    I recently grabbed Wacom Cintiq Pro 13 and updated to ArtRage 5, dreaming of having a drawing experience similar to what I get on my iPad with my fineline 2, but like, accurate, and with arbitrary file sizes. But so far, it's been pretty weird...

    - moving the canvas with two fingers doesn't work smoothly or consistently
    - pinching to zoom doesn't really work at all. Sometimes it can zoom out, but I don't think I've managed to get it to zoom in, and most of my pinch gestures are interpreted as movement gestures
    - rotating clockwise works great, but rotating counterclockwise opens display preferences (every time, and only in ArtRage, even if system preferences isn't running)

    Everything works pretty well in Windows 10 (except for the lack of single finger touch rejection, which I understand to be related to windows reporting single finger gestures as mouse events or something), so I'm more or less ok, but ^^^ is pretty weird. Like, display preferences? I don't even understand how that's happening. I also get the feeling that reason touch rejection works so well on the iPad is because when it's set to use a stylus the input events for drawing come from a different channel (ie, a wacom driver instead of iOS). The gestures also work pretty well elsewhere (ie, pinch and zoom work beautifully in Chrome).

    Is there any data I can provide to help fix this? I get the impression that you guys are sick of questions about multitouch but it's also why I upgraded. I'm willing to read api references and learn enough swift/obj-c to write an input event logger if it'll help. I also do this level of programming professionally and would be glad to help if bandwidth is the main issue.
    do you have any other painting apps (a photoshop trial is a good start, same with c*rel painter) to compare the multi-touch experience? I don't know if chrome is relying on wacom driver to handle touch commands (assuming there's a generic touch toolset that mac os can use with gesture-enabled devices);

    wacom tablet drivers for mac have been pretty shitty recently (mid-2016 and onwards, or so), and release notes for p. much every build contain vague, unspecified touch functionality improvements.
    this might be a driver-related cause behind your issues, rather than an artrage one :\

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    17
    In CS6 Extended the zoom works, but not the pan, and I don't know if it even supports rotating the working surface. I installed the Painter 2017 trial and it worked almost perfectly. But then it would, because Wacom seems to deliberately support Painter.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    New Zealand
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    3,140
    We're currently talking to Wacom about their drivers because they contacted us regarding the pan/zoom issue with Cmd + Mousewheel zoom. At the moment, using the current Wacom drivers (6.3.20-11 for the Intuos) I'm not seeing any problems with Multitouch but I have noted to them some issues with how they're passing data to the app (specifically, Wacom use old style gesture messages rather than current OS standards). This might mean that apps that support those old style gestures specifically don't see any problems, while apps that focus on the internal OS gestures do, it's hard to say.

    If counterclockwise rotation is bringing up display preferences it sounds like the gesture is being interpreted oddly by the tablet itself. I'll add your info to our conversation with Wacom as we should be talking with their engineers directly shortly and I'd like to find out what's happening. Could you let me know what driver revision you're using?
    Matt
    ArtRage UI
    Ambient Design.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    17
    I'm using the latest ones; I removed them with their utility and reinstalled them with the latest from the site and the behaviour is identical.

    That counterclockwise rotation thing has only happened in art rage. It works everywhere else, more or less.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    17
    Man, it's so tragic that they are doing their own gesture stuff, because it seems like it's really bad.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    New Zealand
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    I've just had confirmation that Wacom have an internal gesture system that Painter is using but Photoshop and ArtRage are not, which is why you see different behaviour there. We're not a fan of supporting non-native gesture systems where possible because proprietary hardware support generally just adds layers of complexity to input processing that get worse and worse over time (particularly when the drivers change the behaviour of that system for some devices and not others, meaning you need to support both standards). However, we're talking to them about it and we should be able to get some improvements on one side of the equation or the other.

    They've asked me for some more details regarding the odd behviour you're seeing with rotation - Could you drop an email to me directly (matt@artrage.com) and let me know what version of OS X you're using and I can get some troubleshooting steps sorted.
    Matt
    ArtRage UI
    Ambient Design.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    17
    I'm using 10.12.3.

    I'm extremely sympathetic to not wanting to support proprietary gesture systems; it seems like Apple already has a really good system for gestures in iOS that I would have expected them to pull into OS X by now, windows must have something similar since they started with the surface pro... even linux's evdev has a super coherent set of events to support multitouch gestures. It's like buying kevlar rolls and building your own tire-shaped mold when there's a goodyear next door.

    I've talked with wacom support a bit, and I've managed to get more specific about the behaviour:

    - when Cmd + Mousewheel = Zoom is on, two finger canvas drags move the canvas at about half the speed I'd expect, pinching out (what I'd expect to zoom in) moves the canvas down, pinching together moves it up
    - when Cmd + Mousewheel = Zoom is off, pinch to zoom works exactly right, vertical scrolling gestures zoom in and out (down is bigger), horizontal scroll gestures do nothing.

    When C+M=Z is on, gestures on my trackpad work pretty much perfectly (rotation in both directions! it still makes me sad that I apparently can't zoom/scroll/rotate in a single gesture but I guess I'll take what I can get).
    Last edited by mr_reidpants; 03-17-2017 at 04:22 PM.

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