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Thread: Oil Brush orientation

  1. #1
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    Oil Brush orientation

    How do I keep the orientation of the brush from flipping when I raise the stylus?

    I want to simulate using a wide brush, going back and forth in the same area, with the same orientation lifting at the ends of each stroke.


    Is this the right place in the forum to be asking such a question?
    Last edited by DarkOwnt; 12-04-2014 at 07:03 AM.

  2. #2
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    If I need to post this on a different thread let me know.

  3. #3
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    This seems like the right category to post in, I just don't have the answer for this. My only suggestion is that if you are using a compatible Wacom device, their 'art pen' may help as it tracks barrel roll as well as pressure and tilt.
    Be well,

    "Teach, Learn, Thrive"~DM


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fashmir View Post
    This seems like the right category to post in, I just don't have the answer for this. My only suggestion is that if you are using a compatible Wacom device, their 'art pen' may help as it tracks barrel roll as well as pressure and tilt.
    Thank you. Good suggestion. Maybe I should it put it on the wishlist... just an option to toggle this behavior.

  5. #5
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    I'm not sure I understand the problem that's happening here. I've done a quick sample to show you the behaviour that you should expect to see when using a stylus to paint with the oil paint. Note that this stylus is not barrel rotation sensitive, it's tilt sensitive.

    Tilt sensitivity does mean that as the angle of the stylus changes in relation to the tablet the angle of the brush head also changes (the 'clock face' angle of the stylus as you look down from above is tracked). This means that if you twist your wrist as you paint the angle will move.

    However, I'm not seeing the brush head flip orientation when I raise the stylus. Here's a quick three step shot of what I see using the stylus to paint:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I am conscious of tilt angle here so I paint my strokes without twisting my hand when I raise the brush. Stroke 1 goes bottom left to top right, I lift the stylus, place it down again then stroke top right to bottom left. The angle of the head remains basically the same (there is some small variance because of the natural change in wrist angle as I stroke along the path).

    Tilt angle is a tricky thing to describe. The manual has an example diagram on page 125. The Tilt Angle property refers to the rotational angle of the stylus body around the tablet when you look down from above (hence the clock face reference). The brush head orients itself with that by default like so:

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    Think of the stylus as the hand on a clock face (I tell you, this was easier to explain when analog clocks were the standard). The brush head is the grey ellipse. As you can see from the diagram, the angle of that head is locked to the rotational angle of the stylus. When we paint with a stylus on a tablet we tend to rotate our wrist a lot - We use it like a pen not a paint brush. This causes the head to rotate as we paint.

    Now - It's entirely possible that I have misunderstood the question here. I'm not seeing any flip when I paint back so it's possible that you're doing something slightly different that shows up an issue. If you could perhaps post an image of what you see we can look in to it further.

    Hope that helps!
    Matt
    ArtRage UI
    Ambient Design.

  6. #6
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    Thank you for your feedback. Let me explain my query a little better with an example.


    Use the oil brush with auto clean off. Start with two thickly painted areas one above the other, color A above color B which form a horizontal border. Load the brush with color B.

    Use a stroke primarily horizontal, starting from color B up just into color A so that only the top bit of the brush slowly becomes colored with A.

    Now, if you keep the brush on the page and draw it back horizontally (change direction) into either color you will see the top color A being painted from the top part of the brush, which is good. But If you draw it back horizontally (into either color) after you raise the brush you will see that the top color which was formerly at the top of the brush is now being colored from the bottom of the brush.

    This essentially "flips the orientation of the brush" because I have raised it momentarily off the page before going back in the other direction.

    I understand that this can be interpreted as a rotation of the brush to keep it oriented with respect to a direction of movement. I am asking for a way to decouple the rotation of the brush from the direction of movement in order to simulate when a painter simply brushes back and forth lifting up at the end of each stroke, and which in reality does not rotate the brush 180 degrees to go in each direction.

    I can provide images later if you need some! Does this help?

    Here is a comparison:

    Not Lifting

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Lifting

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by DarkOwnt; 12-06-2014 at 02:46 PM.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the image, I understand the issue now. That's something I remember discussing with Andy at length so I'll go back and have a chat with him to see if I can work it out. I believe there's a technical reason it occurs but I'll find out what I can.
    Matt
    ArtRage UI
    Ambient Design.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattRage View Post
    Thanks for the image, I understand the issue now. That's something I remember discussing with Andy at length so I'll go back and have a chat with him to see if I can work it out. I believe there's a technical reason it occurs but I'll find out what I can.
    My understanding is that currently the orientation of the brush is coupled to i.e. defined by the direction of the stroke. This is reasonable IF you assume the painter is rotating the brush so that the leading edge of the brush stays "in front". Moving in the opposite direction then MEANS flipping the brush.

    IF the painter does not rotate the brush based on the direction of movement, i.e. if he simply keeps the orientation of the brush constant while making strokes in any and all directions, then the kind of stroke which results from NOT lifting IS correct.

    I think I would like to put on the wish list a way to toggle the lifted brush behaviour to be decoupled from the direction of movement/stroke.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkOwnt View Post
    My understanding is that currently the orientation of the brush is coupled to i.e. defined by the direction of the stroke. This is reasonable IF you assume the painter is rotating the brush so that the leading edge of the brush stays "in front". Moving in the opposite direction then MEANS flipping the brush.

    IF the painter does not rotate the brush based on the direction of movement, i.e. if he simply keeps the orientation of the brush constant while making strokes in any and all directions, then the kind of stroke which results from NOT lifting IS correct.

    I think I would like to put on the wish list a way to toggle the lifted brush behaviour to be decoupled from the direction of movement/stroke.
    Tying the brush head orientation to stylus direction is, quite frankly, a very efficient idea as it partially negates the need to use an upper-end tablet with tilt/rotation capability when painting in Artrage. It allows the owner of even entry level devices the ability to apply dynamic strokes (rather than static ones) that would otherwise appear as if they were done with a Speedball/croquille pen. The drawback for more advanced artists is the inability to control brush head orientation at will which is something easily achievable in real media.

    The ability to lock and unlock brush head orientation via a simple keystroke would be a plus for Artrage users. I have suggested as much (in greater depth than I have here) to the developers of other drawing and painting software but so far none have implemented it afaik.

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