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Thread: Intersting and maybe useful

  1. #1
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    Intersting and maybe useful

    I found this site http://artvarsity.com/35-inspiring-c...aster-painters and it seems nteresting. I'm going to convert some if not all of the swatches to palettes.

    The last time I kept an open mind,
    my brain fell out and the dog grabbed it.
    Now it's full of dirt, toothmarks, and dog slobber.
    No more open minds or dogs for me.www.gms9810.com/

  2. #2
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    You may all ready be aware of this site, Gms9810, but if you enjoy exploring color combinations, check out http://kuler.adobe.com. You can create color combinations and save them.
    Last edited by jmac; 08-13-2014 at 12:57 AM.

  3. #3
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    Yeah, give it a go to see how it works. But I have found that editing a palette down to 7 or so colors is not so useful for me. It would be useful if you're looking for graphic designer colors perhaps when you're final product would only have 7 colors. Or someone picking flat colors for an animated character. But for actually painting it's not as useful as you might think.

    The real hang up for me is that so much of a painting is in the relationships of the colors and the natural blending while applying paint onto paint and even happy accidents and juxtapositions and creating the illusion of dimension that this simplifying down process does. So because the process that you see done on that website page looks like it should work by giving the dominant colors, it doesn't. It's like a palette that a number cruncher or statistician would come up with -- an example of that limitation would be if you wanted to know how many people live in an average household by counting the number of people and averaging it out, you would come up with the average household would have 4.3275 people living in it. Let the search begin for the .3275th of a person who apparently lives in all homes.

    In painting, when you get the knack of color, you will find that what gives it its fire and life are the little subtleties. Again to use a guitar analogy it's like the difference between someone playing just the straight notes of the song correctly and someone who gets inflections and adds embellishments and puts their own spin on it. Color is very like music in that way.

    What you may find works better is to load an actual full picture into the ArtRage palette or open a reference photo and just sample your colors from the full range of colors present. There's no need to hamstring your color when you can just as easily have a palette with a full range of colors in context. It doesn't have the limitation that real world painting has where you have to squeeze out 7 or so colors from tubes and then mix everything from those.

    If you want to learn color in ArtRage such that you can then paint in the real world using tube paint, I would recommend that you start with a limited palette that matches what you're starting with the tube paint you will start with. But if you're wanting to "steal" a palette, start with the whole painting because you can really see what's happening and why the source painting works like it does and which parts of that painting are serving what purpose.
    "Not a bit is wasted and the best is yet to come. . ." -- remembered from a dream

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Akey View Post
    Yeah, give it a go to see how it works. But I have found that editing a palette down to 7 or so colors is not so useful for me. It would be useful if you're looking for graphic designer colors perhaps when you're final product would only have 7 colors. Or someone picking flat colors for an animated character. But for actually painting it's not as useful as you might think.
    I agree with that, for the most part. However, I do find a strictly limited palette useful for learning contrast. It helps focus the brain on the values needed, rather then the hues (in my opinion). So it's good for doing studies or underlay painting work.
    Nothing is easy to the unwilling.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Someonesane View Post
    I agree with that, for the most part. However, I do find a strictly limited palette useful for learning contrast. It helps focus the brain on the values needed, rather then the hues (in my opinion). So it's good for doing studies or underlay painting work.
    True enough. My experience with it is in the real world using a method taught by old time illustrator Fred Fixler who illustrated at one time I believe out of New York. And this particular technique came from the Frank Riley Method. He had his classes use gouache in this case. And he had us get about 10 plastic jars with screw on caps that one gets in a fishing tackle shop to keep their hooks and sinkers in. But they worked great as cups to pre-mix flesh tone in about 8 or so steps of values. Hair and other colors of consequence could be in 3 value steps each. And then other colors like Black and White and maybe an accent like turquoise or cerulean could be used straight out of the tube.

    Why pre-mix at all? Well, in paperback covers, you paint people and that means a lot of skin. So it's faster to paint this way because all you have to really do then is do a value study and the color is correct. And you can vary things on the fly as needed when the light is different temperature or whatever. For another you have time to get it right where the color steps actually work where one doesn't suddenly jump toward green or something because of forgetting how you mixed the color. Color is relative and one can get derailed. It's not the worst thing that can happen, to adjust the color back, but when it's a business and time is money, those kinds of time traps are something to avoid when possible.

    So yes, SOS. That page link did not show any sense to how it distilled down the colors from those sample paintings and palettes. I'm delighted you commented on probably the most important thing in realistic painting = values. And pre-mixed palettes with value (and color) steps is a super handy device.

    For what it's worth though, Fred Fixler was way pre-digital before retirement and I think personal computer paint programs were not so evolved when I took his class. So within his context, he couldn't just dip into a pre-existing illustration and sample the perfect color straight off each and every time. I strongly suspect he would have delighted in the speed being able to do so afforded though. He was very systematic and streamlined and the most talented teacher I ever had. He taught a method that was very learnable and he had the patience of a saint and he could paint magic right before your startled eyes.

    Oh, and there's no saying in ArtRage you can't create these same value charts for important colors and import those for use as reference pics or a palette. So create them once and always have them ready for import.
    "Not a bit is wasted and the best is yet to come. . ." -- remembered from a dream

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac View Post
    You may all ready be aware of this site, Gms9810, but if you enjoy exploring color combinations, check out http://kuler.adobe.com. You can create color combinations and save them.
    Yeah, I go there a lot, It was better when people could upload swatches.

    The last time I kept an open mind,
    my brain fell out and the dog grabbed it.
    Now it's full of dirt, toothmarks, and dog slobber.
    No more open minds or dogs for me.www.gms9810.com/

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Akey View Post
    Yeah, give it a go to see how it works. But I have found that editing a palette down to 7 or so colors is not so useful for me. ....
    If I do I'll do them all at once, I'm way too lazy to each one.

    The last time I kept an open mind,
    my brain fell out and the dog grabbed it.
    Now it's full of dirt, toothmarks, and dog slobber.
    No more open minds or dogs for me.www.gms9810.com/

  8. #8
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    Missouri
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    I've been trying limited palettes too, les chance of making mud that way and the results are better.

    The last time I kept an open mind,
    my brain fell out and the dog grabbed it.
    Now it's full of dirt, toothmarks, and dog slobber.
    No more open minds or dogs for me.www.gms9810.com/

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