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Thread: Markers and > 50% luminance

  1. #1

    Markers and > 50% luminance


    First of all thanks for the update, the blending is very nice =D

    I've noticed something weird about markers.
    When using a dry marker (0% wetness) and a light color, above 50% luminance, I notice a different behaviour than when using a darker colour. With a dark colour, the first stroke with a dry marker is lighter, and the next strokes build up uniformly to the color I've selected. When the colour is lighter than 50% though, the marker has an entirely different feel, that looks like chalk, or as if it hasn't got enough ink, on the first stroke, and additional overlapping strokes build up to a color with the same hue and saturation values as the selected one, but with exactly 50% luminance. As a result, trying to cover uniformly a surface with ,say, a pale red, will result in chalky lines which overlap to a rich saturated red. The effect goes away at 100% luminance , which is pure white, and which remains white.
    Doing the same with the wetness set to 100% will give a color closer to the selected one, much darker still, and with wet streaks all over...

    What strikes me as odd is the different behaviour above and below 50% luminance.

    I can't post an image right now, but I'll try to do so soon. To see what I mean , though, just scribble a bit with a dry marker, and a color of whatever hue (though red shows the effect best), 100% saturation and 70-80% luminance, and then with the luminance to 20-30% to see the difference.

    Perhaps it's intended, but then why the different behaviour? why not have them all build up to black or a dirty gray as real markers would ? (though I certainly would prefer it the other way around :P)

    PS:Oh and about those streaks when the marker is set to a high value of wetness. Would it be possible to tone the effect down a bit? It surely gives a 'real' feel to the markers, but as it is, they are the only glazing tool available (which can give very nice results over other media) and though wet markers blend very nice, the streaks are somewhat in the way :P

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Ambient Design
    Ooh, this sounds like about the point where I duck out and let the backbone engineer answer this one This is most likely something Andy will be able to shed some light on.
    Resident Bug-Hunter / Technical Support
    Ambient Design

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Ambient Design
    Okay, this is quite a tricky question.
    In Real Life, marker pens dont tend to have 'white' colours. Generally the lighter-coloured they are the more transparent they are to let more of the (usually) white paper-colour through.
    Now, we can't simulate that exactly, because we (currently!) dont have 'subtractive' layers. So we do a bit of a compromise, using the higher luminance to fade the alpha of the pen. Wetter pens will tend to stay at that resulting colour because they dont add ink to themselves. But the dry pens tend to add more ink to the paper overtop of their previous strokes, so can build up to the full opacity of the pen.

    You're correct in that it's very hard to get uniform coverage with marker pens. There is often quite visible variation in colour intensity across an area coloured with markers.
    AndyRage's mantra for graphics engine code:
    "Sure - how hard can it be?"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Pacific Northwest
    I am confident in what you guys are doing with ArtRage. Just in the short time I have been involved I have seen it grow in exciting ways. As to the pace of changes, I, being human, am just as eager to see some of the big stuff happen soon as any one might be. I look forward to the possibilityof watercolor, real world pigment mixing, glazing tools, spatter brush, user defineable: brush presets, knife edges, bristle stiffness (still looking for that elusive badger hair blender) and glitter shapes. The list could literallygo on a long while. I am willing to wait. Or to be told "we are not going in that direction." I don't think we should start asking for one tool to be scaled back so it works as another (no offense intended azathothgr, I appreciate your observations) we should ask for the tool we want ie: a glazing brush or a glazing medium check box, and hope that it makes sense for the vision of the Ambient team. I am definately sensitive to the desire of the Ambient team to keep ArtRage a simple approachable tool, but I do love the idea of a Pro switch of some kind that turns on the nitro-uber-thrust-with-a-cool-interface-module for power users. Ok I'm rambling. It's all love. Bye for now.
    Be well,

    "Teach, Learn, Thrive"~DM

  5. #5
    Well, I wasn't intending to really "ask" for a change, especially right after an update :P Just saying what I'd personally prefer, with no expectations of it going this or that way.
    I'm happy too with the way artrage is right now, but heh sometimes a good program and a responsive dev team tend to spoil the users ..

    Anyway, the post's topic was the light colored markers, and that's answered (thanks Andy) . I guess I'm used to less artistic programs =D Every time a tool does something I don't expect I think I'm doing things wrong :lol:

    off topic PS: the 0% loaded oil brush blends markers too ! Very nice watery effects!

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