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Thread: Importing layers and manipulating with palette knife etc

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Importing layers and manipulating with palette knife etc

    Hi,

    I'm pretty new to forums in general so I hope I'm posting in the right place and that this question has not been asked elsewhere - so far my searching has yielded no results...

    I'm just about ready to buy Artrage - it seems amazing. I'm using the trial version first though and I've run into something I just can't understand,so here goes:

    --- I create a new document and select a canvas texture (a rough canvas).

    --- I import a jpeg image I'd previously created in Photoshop, just to mess with it (instead of just plain old painting in Artrage I wanted to try manipulating one of my other pieces of art)

    --- I start using the palette knife tool to smoosh around my imported jpeg - and the palette knife tool pushes the image information around very nicely, as if the image is made of wet oil paint or something - very cool.

    --- Then, just to experiment around... I decide to import the same jpeg again as a new layer in the very same Artrage document (so that now I have two layers: one is the jpeg image with the smudges I made using the palette knife, and the new layer above it is a fresh, untouched copy of that same jpeg image). I start messing around with the image on the new layer using the same palette knife tool without touching the palette knife settings or any other settings - and the results are similar, but the palette knife tool is behaving slightly differently on the new layer, only making faint smoky smudges instead of the cooler wet smudges it made with the originally imported jpeg of the same image on the layer below. See attachments to see what I mean.

    --- And... on the newly imported layer, the smudges the palette knife does make are not just weaker - the smudges also reveal some of the texture of the style of canvas I chose for the document. Why does the newly imported layer do this and not the image that was first imported on the layer below? Almost as if the second import of the same jpeg is the same image but made with a thinner coat of paint, if that makes any sense.

    In short, why doesn't the palette knife behave the same on both imports of the same image in this one document? Is the issue a function of my software being the trial version, or is there something else I am missing (which could very well be). Thanks for any help!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Just confirmed this with someone and the short answer is that it's a deliberate choice. Import Image creates a new painting with wet - deep - paint. Import Image to Layer just imports a thin image with less paint. (If you read my previous answer, don't worry - I'm having one of my long winded and confusing days!)

    Also, just to be sure, if your process was:

    1. Open ArtRage
    2. Import Image
    > New painting is created
    3. Import Image to Layer

    Then you actually started a new painting when you imported the first image, so some of previous canvas properties may not have been retained if you changed them after opening ArtRage (you are able to change the default canvas if you wish, though).
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  3. #3
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    Mar 2014
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    Thanks so much for the reply! So there's no way to import a jpeg or other image file as a second layer and assign that same deep wet paint attribute to it as an image has when you go to File > Import Image, I guess?

    I was just hoping that if I have an illustration in Photoshop that exists in different layers, and should I want to treat each layer of the illustration to Artrage's great tools - especially using that deep wet paint look - that I could save each layer of the illustration as a separate image, import each of those into one Artage document on separate layers and then go to work on each layer with that same deep wet paint look - but it sounds as if, in order to treat the illustration as a whole to that deep wet paint look, I would have to flatten the Photoshop layers into one image and bring the whole piece of art into Artrage as one image and that that's my only option right now... Does that sound right?

    In short - there's no way to get that deep wet paint look with the palette knife on multiple layers of an Artrage document?

  4. #4
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    Mar 2014
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    Oh, also, sorry - in reply to the order of actions you'd listed that you are thinking I'd done - I didn't actually start a new painting. If you refer back to the second of the two pictures I attached, the second picture shows in the Layers palette that there are at that point 2 layers in that one document. The second picture I'd attached is showing the new layer, on top of the first layer. Both layers are the same image though.

    The order was this:

    1. I opened Artrage
    2. Did File > Import image
    3. Used the palette knife on the image and it has that deep wet paint look
    4. Did File> Import image file to layer to bring a second copy of the same image in again, but as a new layer
    5. Used the palette knife on the newly imported version of the image, on the new layer - and the palette knife doesn't have that deep wet paint look


    Sorry I know this is confusing to to type about so it must be confusing to read...

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    I think they restrict the amount of paint an imported image has (as an additional layer; not a new image), because many people wanted to start drawing directly on the image, as though it were a bitmap. For example, let's say I imported a pencil drawing and wanted to clean up the pencil work in some areas. If the imported image layer had been given a paint like effect, I'd have a tough time making my changes, because if I pressed my eraser into the paint, it'd leave an indentation around it (so it'd look embossed). We'd also run into trouble doing collage work. If all of the imported images had raised/wet paint to them, overlapping them would leave indented edges, as each layer cut into the paint of the layer beneath it. So, to avoid all of that, they import into the program, flat.

    However, a simple way of making the paint "wet", is to add new, transparent, paint above it. To do this, add a new layer above the dry area and set it's Blend Mode to Multiply. Select pure white as your color and paint over the dry area of your canvas using the Oil Brush with the Thinner setting set to 0%. Merging that layer into the dry layer will apply its paint thickness to it, allowing you to smear it as you'd like. If I get a chance, I'll make a video demonstration of this.
    Nothing is easy to the unwilling.

  6. #6
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    Mar 2014
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    Thank you so much for your reply! I will try your suggestion and see how it goes.

  7. #7
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    Mar 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Someonesane View Post
    I think they restrict the amount of paint an imported image has (as an additional layer; not a new image), because many people wanted to start drawing directly on the image, as though it were a bitmap. For example, let's say I imported a pencil drawing and wanted to clean up the pencil work in some areas. If the imported image layer had been given a paint like effect, I'd have a tough time making my changes, because if I pressed my eraser into the paint, it'd leave an indentation around it (so it'd look embossed). We'd also run into trouble doing collage work. If all of the imported images had raised/wet paint to them, overlapping them would leave indented edges, as each layer cut into the paint of the layer beneath it. So, to avoid all of that, they import into the program, flat.

    However, a simple way of making the paint "wet", is to add new, transparent, paint above it. To do this, add a new layer above the dry area and set it's Blend Mode to Multiply. Select pure white as your color and paint over the dry area of your canvas using the Oil Brush with the Thinner setting set to 0%. Merging that layer into the dry layer will apply its paint thickness to it, allowing you to smear it as you'd like. If I get a chance, I'll make a video demonstration of this.

    Hi again - thanks once again for your advice - I just tried to follow it and probably did something wrong (it didn't work)... If there's anyway you can do a screen capture as an example I would be extremely grateful!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by atari3d View Post
    Oh, also, sorry - in reply to the order of actions you'd listed that you are thinking I'd done - I didn't actually start a new painting. [...]
    The order was this:

    [LIST=1][*]I opened Artrage[*]Did File > Import image
    You actually did; the Import Image command opens a new canvas with that image. If you paint something, then choose Import Image, then it will ask if you want to save the painting you are leaving. If you open a really small image, the canvas will match the size. If you don't want to lose your existing changes and settings, you should either reset them after importing, or use the Import Image to Layer command instead.


    And as a workaround to the 'getting thick paint on the layer' result:

    An alternate method is to just paint a really thick layer of paint under the imported layer, then merge the two. The paint tool you use depends on your intended effect; some tools will show visible texture, but you can try blending it flat, or experiment with the settings (e.g. Oil Brush at 100% Pressure and Loading, and 50% Thinners).
    Ambient Design Tech Support & Community Manager

    This is not my signature.

    Go forth and read the tutorials. Also, check out the featured artists!

  9. #9
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    Oct 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by atari3d View Post
    Hi again - thanks once again for your advice - I just tried to follow it and probably did something wrong (it didn't work)... If there's anyway you can do a screen capture as an example I would be extremely grateful!
    Hey, here's the video tutorial: Direct LINK (can be viewed in HD).



    Hopefully it'll be useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by HannahRage View Post
    An alternate method is to just paint a really thick layer of paint under the imported layer, then merge the two. The paint tool you use depends on your intended effect; some tools will show visible texture, but you can try blending it flat, or experiment with the settings (e.g. Oil Brush at 100% Pressure and Loading, and 50% Thinners).
    I've used that method in the past, as well (because it's quicker then the method in the video I just linked too), but I've noticed that it tends to chip the paint more often, when blending it with the palette knife. I always assumed it had something to do with the idea of fat over lean in traditional media.
    Nothing is easy to the unwilling.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    11

    Thank you again

    To Someonesane and HannahRage - your advice has been exactly what I needed. Thank you! And Someonesane, I looked at a little of your time lapse art - it is really nice.
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