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Thread: Of passion and paint

  1. #1
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    Of passion and paint

    Yes, the name was meant to get attention but I have a reason for wanting opinions, so here goes:

    Do you, (meaning everybody) think it's necessary to have emotion and passion in order to effectively draw OR does it just require the ability to make the writing instrument do what one wants it to do?

    Once I get some replies, if I get any, I'll explain why I asked this seemingly stupid question.

    The last time I kept an open mind,
    my brain fell out and the dog grabbed it.
    Now it's full of dirt, toothmarks, and dog slobber.
    No more open minds or dogs for me.www.gms9810.com/

  2. #2
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    Craftsmanship

    From the beginning, that is in old Egypt, in the Classical times in Greece and Italy, during the Medievial and even the baroque epoche, the painters were just craftsmen among other craftsmen. They were skilled and sometimes genious in their craftsmenship, but still just craftsmen. During the Romantic epoche and the Modernist epoche the artist was transformed to something more than just a good craftsman (mostly a man). They were declared to be nearly devine or having some secret insights that no ordinary women or men had.

    One have to bear in mind that in China there are about 700.000 art students every year. Each of them are great sketchers, painters, sculptors, digital artists... In London U.K. there are supposed to be 40.000 artists and art students from all over the world, walking the streets, studying, visiting museums or galleries... All of them are surely passionated about what they do. But they have to be good craftsmen or women, working traditionally or digitally to suceed. Creative, skilled, passionate, well educated, relevant, original... passion is just one ingredient among many others.

    The latest issue of my favourite magazine Colors, is about what you ask. So, there is no stupid question.
    Last edited by Henry Stahle; 10-20-2013 at 07:25 PM.
    My Art Blog : Pennstreck
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  3. #3
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    There is no answer in art only opinion
    "Not a bit is wasted and the best is yet to come. . ." -- remembered from a dream

  4. #4
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    That is one answer...

    Quote Originally Posted by D Akey View Post
    There is no answer in art only opinion
    Well, that is one answer.

    Another is: in all human activity; love, reproduction, golf, scuba diving, hunting, ballet, flamenco, cooking, playing the accordion, mountain climbing, art, design and architecture, digging for opals in the Australian desert, photography, beer brewing, knitting, building custom cars...and whatever, you need a certain amount of passion and emotion. As well as a lot of other characteristics, among them skills and craftsmanship.

    Passion: yes! High skills and craftsmanship: yes! You need them both.
    Last edited by Henry Stahle; 10-21-2013 at 09:15 PM.
    My Art Blog : Pennstreck
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  5. #5
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    Hi Henry,

    I had posted on a cell phone and it was difficult to see so I didn't say much. I also got that George wanted more people to engage in the conversation and I have a tendency to use a lot of words which often times dissuades people from speaking. So I thought I would say less and see what happened. But it doesn't look like it's going to happen soon. So here goes.

    Generally I can see most every possible statement about art as being true for that speaker in that moment. And with my comment in this case I was more addressing George than you, Henry.

    But to discuss it with you now, I think passion is a good thing. I do not at all a believe passion to be a necessary thing. There are many people who do art mechanically, to fulfill contractual obligations, in which they have other people doing the actual work, and they sign it claiming it because they paid for it and they were creating art as a commodity. Much the same as running a studio, as was the case with the generally accepted master artist Peter Paul Rubens among so many others including many of the big names in modern art. If I recall correctly, I believe Rubens was in politics and moved in wealthy circles, and I suspect he did not paint all his paintings, certainly not after he 'made it big'.

    And then there are always forgeries. Despite what one thinks about the ethics involved in all that, it's art in a very specific form and I don't think it necessary for the forger to be passionate about it, except perhaps in being passionate about their greed or passionate about the excitement of fooling everybody and not getting caught. I imagine there could be a quality beyond emotionless dispassion. Plus, I think that the forger is no different than the assistant in the studio of a great artist. He (or she) just happens to be working independently, but as much restricted to the 'master's' style as someone within the master's official and legitimate studio. Forger and employees are all copying the same style and doing work in the manner of the master.

    But of course you describe the way it ought to be. And if one is judging by using your comments as a measuring stick to see if it's passionate enough, then sure, why not? Who's to say it is or isn't how you say it. Because it's true for you means it's true in certain cases.

    I would wager there are people who call paintings art because they sell art. And thus by that definition it is art in that way of looking at it. And they could care less whether the person who made the painting was passionate about it. They may or may not be passionate about selling, but at what point does selling become an art? They probably consider selling art as a meaningful, very practical art in itself. But on the other hand, there are many artists who would NEVER consider a gallery owner an artist. But consider this about the gallery owner: they may not create the paintings, but they paint a picture in the mind of the potential buyer, and they may be quite artful about that.

    I maintain that which motivates a good salesman to achieve their goals would be activating the same internal stuff that motivates an artist to paint a particular painting. It's just that it comes out on canvas in one case and on the ledger with another. Both are engaged in manifesting their visions as they see important. And since forms can be interchanged so easily in exercising the process of creativity, then that can extend way out to include anything and anyone if their consciousness in the the right place for it to happen. And so it's a judgment call about value and categorizing and all that stuff that people like to use to differentiate things of the world and life experience into -- neat little packages because it's easier to talk about and work with. But it's not really that different. But it ALL reflects who we are inside, the attitudes, the forms, the inventions, the dance -- all of it is about us and the stuff that makes us up.

    I still think that everything is a judgment call. The definition can be as diverse as there are different types of people with their myriad motivations -- not all of which are in agreement, even about their passion.

    I would think that having passion is a good thing. But I think people with passion when doing art can fail as much as anyone else too. Passion is no guarantee of being able to paint and draw and be good at something. In fact, it speaks more of the kind of person they are more than their quality as an artist. But for those who do harness the energy that comes from passion in a constructive way, they have a very strong tool (or potential tool).

    I think craftsmanship is a great place to focus one's artistic aspirations as a natural outcropping of wanting an articulate voice. If someone has a desire inside to 'get it right', then they will probably tend to aspire to more articulate things. I'm not saying this about any one specific style or technique. One can be a craftsman and yet have their paintings look very sloppy by other people's standards. But those people are judging based on a very different criteria. Valid to them and perhaps rubbish to the other guy.

    So whatever mystery George is drawing us into, we'll have to wait and see. And hopefully he'll get the people he wants to speak up to post something.
    Last edited by D Akey; 10-21-2013 at 11:31 PM.
    "Not a bit is wasted and the best is yet to come. . ." -- remembered from a dream

  6. #6
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    To feel passion and excitement while creating is the most wonderful high in the world.... for me anyway. Keeping up that momentum is the difficult part.

    Think about Van Gogh's drive to create, and watch those magnificent paint strokes come from his brush.

    Technical ability is one necessity, but passion and inspiration shows in your work.

  7. #7
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    There are those very skillful in reproducing a scene that it ends up just as a beautiful photography. All that detailed work and years of mastering, for something that we have much better technologies in this day and age.
    An there are some lacking for something lost or just inaccessible for whatever reason, barely skilled and looking for a vent to express it.
    Art is just an accident, a collision somewhere between the two instances. Sometimes, it takes only little skills and a twist of inspiration, other times a whole lot of craftsmanship does wonders with just a glimpse of feel.

    But i'm not sure if the OP was asking about art, with his "effectively draw" remark. To draw in such a manner as to achieve a desired result, is sufficient to master the skill of making "the writing instrument do what one wants it to do".
    That's unless you want something otherwise inaccessible, then something more can get tangled in the canvas, like emotion.

  8. #8
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    In the Chinese tradition, passion, a limited and transient human emotion, is not valued, but energy, freely and everywhere occurring in nature, is ... "Energy is eternal delight" (Wm Blake, Marriage of Heaven and Hell)


    ps: Henry, what is the evidence for the claim that "each" of the "700,000" art students in China is "great"?
    xiěyž, n. freehand brushwork, spontaneous expression
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  9. #9
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    my findings...

    Quote Originally Posted by chinapete View Post
    In the Chinese tradition, passion, a limited and transient human emotion, is not valued, but energy, freely and everywhere occurring in nature, is ... "Energy is eternal delight" (Wm Blake, Marriage of Heaven and Hell) ps: Henry, what is the evidence for the claim that "each" of the "700,000" art students in China is "great"?
    I don't want to change the direction of Gms9810 thread "Of passion and paint" so I reply here.
    My Art Blog : Pennstreck
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinning View Post
    There are those very skillful in reproducing a scene that it ends up just as a beautiful photography. All that detailed work and years of mastering, for something that we have much better technologies in this day and age.
    An there are some lacking for something lost or just inaccessible for whatever reason, barely skilled and looking for a vent to express it.
    Art is just an accident, a collision somewhere between the two instances. Sometimes, it takes only little skills and a twist of inspiration, other times a whole lot of craftsmanship does wonders with just a glimpse of feel.

    But i'm not sure if the OP was asking about art, with his "effectively draw" remark. To draw in such a manner as to achieve a desired result, is sufficient to master the skill of making "the writing instrument do what one wants it to do".
    That's unless you want something otherwise inaccessible, then something more can get tangled in the canvas, like emotion.
    I like this. Neat way of looking at it like a spectrum.
    "Not a bit is wasted and the best is yet to come. . ." -- remembered from a dream

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