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Thread: It's a matter of black and white.

  1. #1
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    It's a matter of black and white.

    I know that in real paint all of the different shades/flavors/varieties of black and whit all have grades of opacity and their own characteristics. I don't understand how this applies to AR. For instance, I think I have GamblinOilColors_v01 colors loaded now and it has several kinds of black (Mars black, Intense black, Black spinel, Chromatic black, Ivory black, etc) and several kinds of white (Titanium white, Titanium Zinc white, Quick dry white, Zinc white, Radiant white, Flake white replace). To me white is white is white and black is white, Someone please enlighten me.

    The last time I kept an open mind,
    my brain fell out and the dog grabbed it.
    Now it's full of dirt, toothmarks, and dog slobber.
    No more open minds or dogs for me.www.gms9810.com/

  2. #2
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    It's a good question and I don't know the answer for Artrage.

    I'll ask a friend and see what she says :-)

    Brett
    Visit my gallery here.

    =========

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gms9810 View Post
    I know that in real paint all of the different shades/flavors/varieties of black and whit all have grades of opacity and their own characteristics. I don't understand how this applies to AR. For instance, I think I have GamblinOilColors_v01 colors loaded now and it has several kinds of black (Mars black, Intense black, Black spinel, Chromatic black, Ivory black, etc) and several kinds of white (Titanium white, Titanium Zinc white, Quick dry white, Zinc white, Radiant white, Flake white replace). To me white is white is white and black is white, Someone please enlighten me.
    Apart from allowing a user to easily find the hue they are searching for (when there's only small shifts), there is no purpose to the names. If you downloaded a .col file for the samples panel that had two different whites— one named "Titanium white" set at Red 255; Green 255; Blue 255 and the other named "Flake white" also set at Red 255; Green 255; Blue 255 —you might as delete one of them, because there will be no difference between them while you work. One will not have a different viscosity, texture or dry time in comparison to the other. That sort of thing is handled with the tools settings.
    Nothing is easy to the unwilling.

  4. #4
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    Ok then simply put black is black and white is white?

    The last time I kept an open mind,
    my brain fell out and the dog grabbed it.
    Now it's full of dirt, toothmarks, and dog slobber.
    No more open minds or dogs for me.www.gms9810.com/

  5. #5
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    I talked to my friend and she is a very experienced digital artist and she says yes there are differences and they are used differently even in digital art. So if she is painting waves she might well start with a blue based white, for example.

    Obviously as Someonesane says, if the RGB/HSV values are the same, then the colours are identical and one can be deleted.

    In peace

    Brett
    Visit my gallery here.

    =========

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gms9810 View Post
    Ok then simply put black is black and white is white?
    When it comes down to things like opacity, viscosity, textures, etc... Yes.
    Nothing is easy to the unwilling.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypotaxis View Post
    I talked to my friend and she is a very experienced digital artist and she says yes there are differences and they are used differently even in digital art. So if she is painting waves she might well start with a blue based white, for example.
    Yes, that's correct. If there is any sort of hue shift in the "white" or "black" sample, it will affect how the color will blend with other colors. So adding a white that has a slight yellow hue shift may result in you getting a green tint when blended into your blue sky.
    Nothing is easy to the unwilling.

  8. #8
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    Just when I thought I had it.

    The last time I kept an open mind,
    my brain fell out and the dog grabbed it.
    Now it's full of dirt, toothmarks, and dog slobber.
    No more open minds or dogs for me.www.gms9810.com/

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Sweden
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    titanium is opaque

    The different names referre to the fact different pigments have been used producing the paints, white or black. Some blacks are a bit tinted, bluish or yelowish or some other hue, depending on the pigmentation. You can discover that while mixing white and black. The very big difference in the common whites, is that zink white is more transparent than titanium white, which is opaque. "Mixing white" is even more transparent than zink white. The old plumbum white made from lead oxide was highly poisonous. No digital white is. Luckily.

    All digital blacks are not true black. RGB black is, but not all CMYK blacks print black.
    My Art Blog : Pennstreck
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Stahle View Post
    The different names referre to the fact different pigments have been used producing the paints, white or black. Some blacks are a bit tinted, bluish or yelowish or some other hue, depending on the pigmentation. You can discover that while mixing white and black. The very big difference in the common whites, is that zink white is more transparent than titanium white, which is opaque. "Mixing white" is even more transparent than zink white. The old plumbum white made from lead oxide was highly poisonous. No digital white is. Luckily.

    All digital blacks are not true black. RGB black is, but not all CMYK blacks print black.
    That's what I learned from my oil painting days. With whites it's opacity vs tinting quality. No idea what bearing that would have on digital though because transparency can be adjusted. The only other reason I can think of is the temperature of the white being compatible with where you want to push your mixed colors - and not have it conflict with the color you're starting out with.

    I never got into finessing black, but it may have a similar sense to white -- opacity and tinting.

    As to digital black, Henry is again correct -- where the person selects the kind of black based on how it's going to print and that's something designers who use black as a color to be black. But there are similar considerations for every color and that's why they developed Pantone and other systems for choosing something like corporate color identification. You would know exactly what the blue and yellow are whenever they print your logo.

    As far as what one does with all that information, you'll get it when you use it as you need it. But when doing art digitally, printers, especially professional ones make a business out of matching your colors exactly. And that's why they have press checks where they run a proof and you the client say yeah or nay, too blue or not enough yellow etc.

    On the screen, how it shows up one computer monitor to the next is a crap shoot since there is no universal standard and why they have color calibrations. Example is painting on a PC and later viewed on a Mac could produce big variances. So screw it, sez I, and do your thing to your liking on your computer and thereafter, if it ever becomes an issue, deal with it on the other end. Otherwise you'll go nuts.
    Last edited by D Akey; 07-20-2013 at 02:21 AM.
    "Not a bit is wasted and the best is yet to come. . ." -- remembered from a dream

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