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Thread: So what's a paradigmz with inflation like this, eh?

  1. #1
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    So what's a paradigmz with inflation like this, eh?

    What the?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    Lascaux cave painters were to these guys like taggers are to architects.

    They said that the farther back in time you go, the slower evolutionary jumps took place. eg. The bronze age was shorter than the stone age, etc.

    Right. 15000 BC. Cave paintings in Lascaux. also said to be 15000 to 10000 BC, depending upon your source (remember that date). But it's right around then. Neat paintings, huh? How come they were so good? I know that ArtRage Alpha Testing goes on for long periods of time, but, land o' goshen!

    ..............ARTRAGE..............
    15000 YEARS IN THE MAKING!

    So uh, watch this for a quick tour of Lascaux "taggers" that we know and love:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnSq0c7jM-A

    Now down the road in the neighboring continent, there were the "architects".

    12000 BC. That's way before Stonehendge. Well before the Pyramids in Egypt. . . even right around more or less Lascaux.

    A shepherd in the south of Turkey unearthed a building = civilization the likes of which was unsuspected to exist on the planet at that time, the likes of which we'll only see thousands of years later. A circular city. Twice as old as any we've seen in Mesopotamia. There are mysteries about this place. And this is one 'song' that 'rocked the casbah', let me tell ya. ArtRage in the Beta Testing epoch you might call it. WOOOOHOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

    Despite my goofing with the Artrage comments, this is legit archeology. And Gobekli Tepe put everything on its ear.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ0ViMVxKZA

    ps: Here's something for the fringe folk, which I easily can slip into, there are suggestions based on the quality of architecture, that the older part of this civilization was more advanced and was deteriorating the more contemporary it got, the inverse of the normal evolutionary process (not ignoring the rise and fall of civilizations). But one has to wonder about what was way, way back there. I heard some suggestions about Egypt as well.
    Last edited by D Akey; 04-18-2013 at 06:13 AM.
    "Not a bit is wasted and the best is yet to come. . ." -- remembered from a dream

  2. #2
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    Thank you Mr Akey for sharing both of those. Absolutely fascinating. 12,000 years buried in sand, and what precision and detail! What was really happening with civilisation way back then?

  3. #3
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    Thanks dear Mr Akey for the links, totally awesome viewing
    Sometimes...I remember better with my eyes closed

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  4. #4
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    Don't you find it a little comical that visitors to Lascaux are taken to a chamber with an "exact replica" of the cave paintings? ...

    It would be better to have tours of the actual site that minimize human pollution: "We are about to enter the cave with the original paintings. Take a deep breath and be prepared to hold it for exactly one-half hour!"

    Or, a shorter tour for the breathing-challenged: "We have just arrived at the site of the original cave paintings. Now please leave!"
    xiěy, n. freehand brushwork, spontaneous expression
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinapete View Post
    Don't you find it a little comical that visitors to Lascaux are taken to a chamber with an "exact replica" of the cave paintings? ...

    It would be better to have tours of the actual site that minimize human pollution: "We are about to enter the cave with the original paintings. Take a deep breath and be prepared to hold it for exactly one-half hour!"

    Or, a shorter tour for the breathing-challenged: "We have just arrived at the site of the original cave paintings. Now please leave!"


    Wouldn't that make great wallpaper for your den though? You could breathe, drink beer, watch the game, play XBox, and everything. . .

    As me be-sainted mum used to say: "Right you cave potatoes. . . you've been starin' at these 'ere walls for nigh on 17000 years now. You should have the blinkin' figures burned into yer memories good and proper by now, shouldn't ya. So get up off your lazy duffs and go find the animals and bring them to me so I can start me ruddy dinner."
    "Not a bit is wasted and the best is yet to come. . ." -- remembered from a dream

  6. #6
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    Very very interesting links Mr Dakey. Thanks!

    It's good to compare the video with the wikipedia page for Gobekli Tepe. The video is a bit hyped into a mystery. Which is a pity as the place is fascinating in its own right. It makes me think of The Vedas too, which many think to be 10+K years old. And there are other tiny but tantalizing glimpses that just maybe there was a sophisticated civilization(s) that came to an end 10-12K years ago.

    Brett
    Visit my gallery here.

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  7. #7
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    Gobeki Tepe has certainly put an embarassment on the face of the world of archaeology which has continually sold short the ability of humanity to the point where the fringe has had to call on ancient astronauts and "chariots of the gods". Utter nonsense. There are astro-archaeological sites in the Americas which pre-date the Pyramids or Stonehenge or New Grange. Good call, Akey.

  8. #8
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    How art made the world

    Dr Nigel Spivey produced the exellent BBC Tv series "How art made the world" in 2004. It is a fascinating journey across all continents during 100.000 years. Probably you can buy the DVDs and the book at BBC shop. The best ever Tv series on ancient art history I have seen and read.

    Still, Australia is the most interesting continent right now. There some old rock paintings/carvings are 40.000 years of age. What? Yes, 40.000! Read this:

    http://moreintelligentlife.com/conte...rock?page=full
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Stahle View Post
    . . .
    Still, Australia is the most interesting continent right now. There some old rock paintings/carvings are 40.000 years of age. What? Yes, 40.000! Read this:

    http://moreintelligentlife.com/conte...rock?page=full
    Fascinating, Henry.

    I must say that when someone is starting to talk about data going back farther than radio-carbon testing can reach, I want more info on that alone. 40,000 years ceiling for testing. Moreover he was talking about humans being there from 60,000 years back, coming from Africa. Based on their art, Australians were showing signs of marked intelligence very early on. I can't imagine over that time there weren't some decorative things going on, even symbols being used (an advancing intelligence watermark).

    If I read it right, in the rock paintings in Australia, some of the pigments are so old they merged with the rock which makes dating it hard. But in some cases archeologists have taken to measuring things around the place they are looking, and he was unclear what those things were and how they could be connected enough to the objects they wanted to date but couldn't because of the material it was made of not providing anything testable. But he did mention some things like a fossilized wasp nest they could date at 17,500 years ago that was built in front of (more recent than) the Gwion Gwion art. That's pretty convincing of a minimum date I should think. (Below are not necessarily the very Gwion Gwion paintings with the wasp nest but it's the closest I could find)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradshaw_rock_paintings

    To me the author was a little unclear as to what was proven and what was circumstantial speculation. That may be because much of the area is still undiscovered and unfolding and they generally haven't had a lot of energy devoted to that area. So the experts themselves don't know a whole lot yet because their tests are falling short.

    When he ran out of stuff to talk about concerning the site in question, to show where archeology was in general, he jumped to Europe and what archeologists have been doing there to date very ancient stuff concerning man -- one of which was the representation of the human figure in the rock art = symbolism = reasonably intelligent.

    So the question that intrigues me most from this is if those people who populated that area were so comparatively intelligent, why did they remain so undeveloped technologically all those thousands and thousands of years? How can other areas have produced these huge advances? And what conditions pushed or slowed technological development? Climate? Stress? Nutrition? Necessity? Outside influences? Aliens? Aliens deciding to bump evolution by giving Art lessons to the monkeys?

    Technology (including in Art) is not the only measuring stick, for sure. But that seems to me like a civilization's signature in a way. It's certainly telling and suggestive. What tools were and are we capable of, and what does that say about us? And where is it leading? Forward or backward or up or down? Big questions.

    This is pretty amazing, Henry. Thanks for the journey even farther back nearer one of the main forks in the road.

    Edit:
    Paragraph from this site page makes me wonder how screwy the dating processes are to conflict so vastly and may be why that original author was so sketchy. Still very mysterious:
    http://www.aboriginalartonline.com/r...wion-gwion.php

    Dating the rock art images is difficult. So far, two different techniques have been used (at different sites). One analysis of single quartz grains embedded in a mud wasp nest using the luminescence method gave a minimum date of 17,500 (1,800) years before present (BP). Another analysis using the radiocarbon method gave more a recent date of 1,450 to 3,900 years BP. The disparity between these dates may reflect problems with the dating techniques, or it may reflect the fact that the images are part of a very long art tradition in the Kimberley stretching across hundreds of generations.
    Last edited by D Akey; 04-20-2013 at 04:32 AM.
    "Not a bit is wasted and the best is yet to come. . ." -- remembered from a dream

  10. #10
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    I was never all that comfortable with the dating scene, especially blind dating. So in order to get over it, I looked up carbon dating and other kinds of dating. . . less emotional, for me anyway. Not exactly speed dating. . . but WTF.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udkQwW6aLik
    "Not a bit is wasted and the best is yet to come. . ." -- remembered from a dream

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