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Thread: Watercolor WIPs- Sharing and Learning

  1. #171
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    Jul 2012
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    Central Coast of California
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    Chinapete, I guess my idea of vintage is the 1950s +/-! Also found this very helpful thread re: bleeds, http://www2.ambientdesign.com/forums...ercolor-effect Could use a video of the process too. Oh and am reading about a real life Tintin that was involved with controlling ebola and AIDs in Africa. Cheers.

  2. #172
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    601
    That's strange and serendipitous-- I'm making a video on sticker sprays that covers just that technique and brush. Will share later on.
    Check out and submit to the thread on Watercolor WIPs in Artrage-- lots of good tips and conversation
    My YouTube video tutorial series- How to Paint with Watercolors in Artrage
    Try out the free
    Artrage Pen-Only Toolbar to improve your workflow and reduce clutter
    List of other good tutorials on using watercolors in Artrage
    List of good sticker sprays for watercolor effects in Artrage

    My blog- art, poetry and picture books- http://www.seamlessexpression.blogspot.com/

  3. #173
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    Feb 2012
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    Portland, OR
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    hi steve, I know you're busy making a new video -- really looking forward to it -- but I wanted to add something to the discussion on Layers ... there I said that as iPad users we don't have the benefit of Select Layer Content ... I should have added that in certain Blend modes in ArtRage it is possible to achieve masking -- possibly this is generally known, but I repeat it here because in your Layers video you (rightly) point to Multiply as the best of the blend modes ...

    I often use the Overlay blend mode because it sits exactly between light and dark, it imitates Screen mode by lightening light pixels, and it imitates Multiply by darkening dark pixels ... I hadn't really thought of it as a Mask, because I don't have much need for that function, I just like it because it's additive and subtractive simultaneously, and I kind of work that way ...

    Anyway, if you have a base image on a white background and apply a (colored) wash in Overlay mode, nothing will appear outside of the borders of the base image, and color in the base image will be darkened as in Multiply, and so a kind of limited purpose Mask is created ...

    I've attached two images, one is the base form to be masked, with three washes put to sleep (so only the base color shows), and the second is the final step showing the three overlays that have been applied and awakened, without any change in the underlying form ... Of course, this isn't as powerful a Mask function as yours is in AR Pro, but it is a workaround for me as an iPad user ...
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    xiěyì, n. freehand brushwork, spontaneous expression
    Artrage Gallery
    / Leaning Tree Ink Studio

  4. #174
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    Jan 2011
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    601
    So the top 3 layers are set to Overlay, but you're applying paint to them instead of making a layer texture and hiding them? Ohhhhh, I wanna try that. The result looks tasty.

    I want to do another Layers video, more extensively covering Blend Modes next, after sticker sprays. These are the sorts of effects I'd like to explore. I'm also testing out using Dodge and Burn techniques in conjunction with sticker sprays to create textures erasures and lifting (like with a tissue). Blend modes are quite powerful and useful.
    Check out and submit to the thread on Watercolor WIPs in Artrage-- lots of good tips and conversation
    My YouTube video tutorial series- How to Paint with Watercolors in Artrage
    Try out the free
    Artrage Pen-Only Toolbar to improve your workflow and reduce clutter
    List of other good tutorials on using watercolors in Artrage
    List of good sticker sprays for watercolor effects in Artrage

    My blog- art, poetry and picture books- http://www.seamlessexpression.blogspot.com/

  5. #175
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    ... it's late here and I'm losing altitude ... but from what I understand, Overlay affects the inactive layers below it ... and so controlling the colors you want as opposed to the ones you get can be an interesting exercise in unintended consequences, but that's another definition for art, isn't it? ... :-)
    xiěyì, n. freehand brushwork, spontaneous expression
    Artrage Gallery
    / Leaning Tree Ink Studio

  6. #176
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    Jan 2011
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    601
    I like the idea of doing the orchids without pencil work, but I'm not necessarily convinced the current version works right without them. ?? The image was really built around having the pencils do the tough work of building form for these very pale petals. Still, I like some of the soft washes of color which take a greater visual presence now, and how the petals sort of bleed together in terms of form, but I think other images that I've painted, without any pencils at all from the beginning, have been more successful in terms of how they work without pencils. I've uploaded these before, but for easy reference, here are two examples made that way before.

    I'm pooping out as well. It's been a few late nights in a row. I'll check back in later. Ciao.
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    Check out and submit to the thread on Watercolor WIPs in Artrage-- lots of good tips and conversation
    My YouTube video tutorial series- How to Paint with Watercolors in Artrage
    Try out the free
    Artrage Pen-Only Toolbar to improve your workflow and reduce clutter
    List of other good tutorials on using watercolors in Artrage
    List of good sticker sprays for watercolor effects in Artrage

    My blog- art, poetry and picture books- http://www.seamlessexpression.blogspot.com/

  7. #177
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Spain
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve B View Post
    I like the idea of doing the orchids without pencil work, but I'm not necessarily convinced the current version works right without them. ??
    Steve, you have been too close to your work. Seeing it in isolation without the other comparison, it really does work without the pencil marks especially with the blue background framing the Orchid now.

    I had an idea. If you are still very worried about the pencil marks needing to have a hint for the detailed shaping especially in the centre of the flower where there is not much contrast, why not show the pencil layer but with the opacity turned down, and rub out some of the pencil lines where it is not necessary, for instance where there are distinct colour differences. Sometimes in "real life" it is not so easy to rub out the pencil in places or you may rub out the paint with it, so the pencil line is gradually faded out but still visible on closer inspection, so it would not be unusual to see some lines here or there, for amateur work at least. It all depends what illusion you are going for, at the end of the day.
    TeresaW
    My Art blog can be found here and
    PaperTree's Images in the ArtRage Gallery can be found here.

  8. #178
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    Feb 2012
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    Portland, OR
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    m aster, if I take a shortcut through your detailed answers to steve, I find you are arguing with yourself, and not with him, or me, or anyone else on this forum who may believe that non-digital art is a standard towards which digital art should (or at least can) aim ... it is difficult to accept that the person who painted "the real thing" on natural media (which, ironically, is seen here in digital), also produced the cartoony parodies you say are representative of digital art ...

    ... the ultimate irony is in the visual ... "the real thing" is an example of non-representational art, so there we must see it as an abstraction of something that once existed in the real world, while the digital cartoons are based in realism, distorted for comic effect ...


    papertree, I asked steve to show his orchids without line because I wanted to focus his attention on the role of line in relation to edges and blending and brushwork and he has said he is heading in that direction ... all that you say about "pencil lines ... still visible" is a confirmation of what I've been trying to show with my "chalk washes," so thank you for that, although I'm not sure what you mean by "amateur" work in relation to visible line ... simply put, line in digital can be modulated with greater ease, and this must bring relief and joy to those who have a heavy hand but want to produce a delicate watercolor ...
    Last edited by chinapete; 08-23-2012 at 01:26 AM.
    xiěyì, n. freehand brushwork, spontaneous expression
    Artrage Gallery
    / Leaning Tree Ink Studio

  9. #179
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    Jan 2011
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    601
    M. Aster- thank you for responding and posting the tutorial. I saw that in another thread in Tips and Tricks. I also really like a lot of the art you linked to. There's some really great stuff! What I find most interesting is that the art that you did in one of the links is the one that looks the most "real"-- it's got lots of grunge and visual grit. The image at the bottom in particular, with the smoke stack going up out of the image, is very "watercolory" and has lots of ambient mood. Frankly, they're all wonderful images. I love them.

    Alternately, I have to say that whats so strange is that the natural media images you shared look no more "special" or "real" to me than some of the images we're posting here.....??? There is some wonderful abstract work done with salt in the "Behance network" link-- that looks like natural media to me, and I really like it. I now know you never like abstract watercolor work, but I do, and that's a reason for doing natural media for me-- it does something that digital watercolors can't do. It seems like you are suggesting that we shouldn't be interested in doing natural media effects, because we could do them with "real" watercolors, but I think the truth should be just the opposite-- why should you be doing natural media to get effects that you can just as easily get digitally, and have more control and flexibility with?

    I use a tablet pc with a bright outdoor-viewable screen. I can paint just about wherever I want. I don't have to set up paints or have an easel. I don't have to stretch or wet my paper, and I don't have to clean up. I sketch on the same space I paint and can build my image as I go, removing it later. I can come back later and delete an object. I can shift the position or color of a layer without repainting. I can save it in iterations and go back to an earlier step. It seems so obvious to me why anyone would paint digitally instead of just painting with natural media. I paint specifically in a watercolor style even when I paint digitally, as you yourself do, because its part of the shared artistic vernacular-- people understand the effects and how to read the image. I like the aesthetic.

    I'm having a hard time understanding why you're "ok" with the images you're sharing, but seem to disagree with the sort of work we're discussing here. It all seems the same to me. ?? In truth, all of the images you have shared that are done digitally have all kinds of watercolor aspects to them-- you're layering translucent color, you're blending out some edges, you're using some layer texture. How is this different than what we've been discussing? To the untrained eye, frankly, I can assure you that the work you are presenting looks just as much "real" as the images I've been posting. I see no real difference except that the images you've shared are done in a cartoon style, and the current images I've posted are not. I think you could be getting almost the same effects you're getting in Artrage with natural media, and, as you suggest, perhaps it would be faster and easier to do them there with the "real" stuff. No need to even scan your image in!

    Perhaps the real question I should be asking is why do you paint digitally in a watercolor style? Then you might be able to better illuminate what's different about the images you are posting, as they seem very much in the same vein as what we're currently doing-- the process of which you yourself seem to be arguing against, even as you use it.

    Perhaps there are some specific things we're doing that you're arguing against or don't understand the motivation for? Can you be clearer and more specific? I don't think it's the use of layers of translucent color, or blending for water-like effects, or the use of a canvas texture that your paint interacts with, nor the use of "visual grit" in a Texture Overlay.... as those are things you yourself are doing. Our styles are different, but our techniques are the same. IMO, both of our images look just as "real". Neither looks particularly "digital" to me. Perhaps you can see the reason for my confusion?

    Strangely, I feel like we're arguing this point to no purpose, because we're all actually agreeing. I mean, your work looks like our work. I don't see the difference. ???
    Last edited by Steve B; 08-23-2012 at 02:38 AM.
    Check out and submit to the thread on Watercolor WIPs in Artrage-- lots of good tips and conversation
    My YouTube video tutorial series- How to Paint with Watercolors in Artrage
    Try out the free
    Artrage Pen-Only Toolbar to improve your workflow and reduce clutter
    List of other good tutorials on using watercolors in Artrage
    List of good sticker sprays for watercolor effects in Artrage

    My blog- art, poetry and picture books- http://www.seamlessexpression.blogspot.com/

  10. #180
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    601
    Alternately, I just wanted to share a natural media watercolor image I did last month. This image teeters on the edge of abstract, but it really does something that I don't think digital watercolors can do, therefor I used natural media to do those wonderful things playing only water and pigment and gravity can accomplish. It's for images like this that I paint natural media.

    IMO, the stuff we're doing in this thread is different, I think, as we can easily accomplish other natural media watercolor effects digitally, and therefore have far more flexibility in terms of altering the image over time, the place where we paint, how much time we need to dedicate to painting, the creation of new workflows, the ease of sharing with others, etc etc.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Check out and submit to the thread on Watercolor WIPs in Artrage-- lots of good tips and conversation
    My YouTube video tutorial series- How to Paint with Watercolors in Artrage
    Try out the free
    Artrage Pen-Only Toolbar to improve your workflow and reduce clutter
    List of other good tutorials on using watercolors in Artrage
    List of good sticker sprays for watercolor effects in Artrage

    My blog- art, poetry and picture books- http://www.seamlessexpression.blogspot.com/

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