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Thread: ArtRage license question

  1. #1
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    ArtRage license question

    I am thinking of purchasing ArtRage, but I can't find any information about the license. Namely, it is lifetime one? Or is it some other type?



    Kindest regards,
    Diam0nd.

  2. #2
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    Re: ArtRage license question

    Quote Originally Posted by Diam0nd
    I am thinking of purchasing ArtRage, but I can't find any information about the license. Namely, it is lifetime one? Or is it some other type?



    Kindest regards,
    Diam0nd.
    Anyone? :cry:

    I'm sure some of the customers must know C'mon ppl, speak up!
    ArtRage v3.0.4 Studio
    Wacom Graphire4 Classic XL (White Edition)

  3. #3
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    Hi Diam0nd,

    The ArtRage license is a general single-user license for one major version of ArtRage, valid for life (or until you break the terms of the license, or some other reason covered in the license which I cant recall... Lawyers are an odd bunch)

    Basically it means that if you've bought ArtRage 2.2, you can use any version of ArtRage 2.x
    And so if we release an update to, say, take ArtRage to version 2.5 then you get a free upgrade as part of your license. In face people who purchased ArtRage 2.01 way back in January last year have already received three major new feature updates.

    You also get free email support (on a best effort basis, but so far we typically answer queries within 24 hours), as well as free access to the ArtRage forums for technical support and galleries.

    Does that answer your question? Not bad for US$19.95 huh?
    AndyRage's mantra for graphics engine code:
    "Sure - how hard can it be?"

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyRage
    Hi Diam0nd,

    The ArtRage license is a general single-user license for one major version of ArtRage, valid for life (or until you break the terms of the license, or some other reason covered in the license which I cant recall... Lawyers are an odd bunch)

    Basically it means that if you've bought ArtRage 2.2, you can use any version of ArtRage 2.x
    And so if we release an update to, say, take ArtRage to version 2.5 then you get a free upgrade as part of your license. In face people who purchased ArtRage 2.01 way back in January last year have already received three major new feature updates.

    You also get free email support (on a best effort basis, but so far we typically answer queries within 24 hours), as well as free access to the ArtRage forums for technical support and galleries.

    Does that answer your question? Not bad for US$19.95 huh?
    Aha, so in other words, me buying 2.2 means I'm all set until 3.0. OK. In that case, another question. What if you decide release 3.0 tomorrow (yes, i am exaggerating, but im sure you see my point)? I mean, usually programs have smth like "free updates for all 2.x versions or for a period of one (2, 3, etc) year", that the second part is exactly for the reason i mentioned above. So, is there such a policy?

    I mean, dont get me wrong, its absolutely not about money. I am more than happy to support your unique (to say the least) piece of software. I simply wanna be clear on what I've bought and make life easier for future buyers

    Also, I suggest putting this info on the purchasing page, because I DID look everywhere possible, and there is no mentioning about the time-aspect of the license (single-user license doesnt really tells one for how long it is valid, does it?)

    And finally, your program is simply a masterpiece. And the price, well, amazing... I really do wish you and your company all the best, and thank you for keeping the cost low (well, id say most of the PC programs cost between 20 and 40 bucks; i dont mean huge software packages like adobe, autodesk, etc of course). Keep up the good work guys!!!
    ArtRage v3.0.4 Studio
    Wacom Graphire4 Classic XL (White Edition)

  5. #5
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    Well, we dont have an official policy about what would happen if we updated to version 3 tomorrow. It's likely there would be a reduced upgrade price for exising users of ArtRage version 2.x

    There are two important things worth noting:
    1) Even if we did release ArtRage 3 tomorrow, ArtRage 2.x would still work and be supported by us. There wouldn't be any requirement to update to 3.x ever. You're still getting full use of what you purchased.
    2) ArtRage 3.x will be more than just the initial release. When you buy ArtRage 3, you'll likely be getting all the free updates for the life of version 3. By this I mean that you may not be missing much between ArtRage 2.99 and ArtRage 3.01. For a while, you may well feel it's *not* worth upgrading.
    3) There may be things that ArtRage 2 will do better than ArtRage 3. It may actually be worthwhile having both ArtRage 2 and 3.

    I know that what you're saying is: if you buy today, and there's an upgrade tomorrow, you'll feel cheated. Had you waited a day your same purchase would have bought you the latest.
    We'll do what we can to ensure that isn't the case when ArtRage 3 comes out.
    AndyRage's mantra for graphics engine code:
    "Sure - how hard can it be?"

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyRage
    Well, we dont have an official policy about what would happen if we updated to version 3 tomorrow. It's likely there would be a reduced upgrade price for exising users of ArtRage version 2.x

    There are two important things worth noting:
    1) Even if we did release ArtRage 3 tomorrow, ArtRage 2.x would still work and be supported by us. There wouldn't be any requirement to update to 3.x ever. You're still getting full use of what you purchased.
    2) ArtRage 3.x will be more than just the initial release. When you buy ArtRage 3, you'll likely be getting all the free updates for the life of version 3. By this I mean that you may not be missing much between ArtRage 2.99 and ArtRage 3.01. For a while, you may well feel it's *not* worth upgrading.
    3) There may be things that ArtRage 2 will do better than ArtRage 3. It may actually be worthwhile having both ArtRage 2 and 3.

    I know that what you're saying is: if you buy today, and there's an upgrade tomorrow, you'll feel cheated. Had you waited a day your same purchase would have bought you the latest.
    We'll do what we can to ensure that isn't the case when ArtRage 3 comes out.
    Well, what you're saying is true. But what I rather meant is that you (as a company) should mention all this on the Purchase page. Like: you buy v2 > u get upgrades up to v3 and a discount when upgrading to v3. That's all I meant really. Because now, all I could find is the where to go to buy the license and absolutely no information on what I am actually buying. I'm sure its all more or less clear for you, but its absolutely unclear for the user. Plus, I really do belive that the "the more information - the better" rules works

    Concerning the 4 points:
    1. This is evident. I did not say anything about you forcing users to upgrade.
    2. When buying v3, you get all updates up to v4. Same as with v2 and actually same as with most of the programs.
    3. If its "worth" upgrading or not is up to the user. It's about knowing your options when buying smth, thats all.
    4. Again, its not about which version is better its about knowing your future options when buyin a piece of software.

    Anyhow, just my 2 cents )
    ArtRage v3.0.4 Studio
    Wacom Graphire4 Classic XL (White Edition)

  7. #7
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    Here is a good and clear example of buying-benefits statement:
    Buying EssentialPIM, you will get: free upgrades till version 2.9, or 1 full year of updates, whichever is longer.
    Now:
    1. free upgrades till version 2.9 - this one is self-explanatory
    2. or 1 full year of updates, whichever is longer - this protects users from company releasing v3 "tomorrow" (= very short period of time)

    Well, I really do believe you Ambient guys need to have smth similar and not just to have but to CLEARLY provide that information to the user BEFORE buying and not make the user search everywhere and ask for it.
    Again, no offence to you or the company, but there is a lack of clarity about your licensing policy, if you ask me.



    Kindest regards,
    Diam0nd.
    ArtRage v3.0.4 Studio
    Wacom Graphire4 Classic XL (White Edition)

  8. #8
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    Part of the reason we dont give out much information is that we dont want to force ourselves to think along one defined path. We could add a catch-all 'This policy may change without notice', but then what was the point of posting a policy in the first place.

    ArtRage is a very dynamic product, and Ambient Design is a small dynamic company. As much as possible we're avoiding doing business the way large companies do because that's a prime recipe for stagnation and lack of innovation.
    A better commitment on behalf of Ambient Design is: "We will keep doing cool stuff, and it'll always be well worth buying (or it'll be free!)"
    AndyRage's mantra for graphics engine code:
    "Sure - how hard can it be?"

  9. #9
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    Uh... the program is only US $ 19.95. It's not like you're talking about paying hundreds (plus cost of industry plug-ins if you're a pro that needs them) for a monster photoediting tool. You are paying a small amount (a very small amount for it's capabilities) for a power house ART application. It's the difference between buying a platoon of soldiers and heavy weapons and buying a highly skilled (Raging) ninja. Personally I have to have both for what I do but my favorite is and always will be my ninja aka. ArtRage. Thanks for listening... glad I got that off my chest. It's just that having been involved with ArtRage for over a year now on a (mostly) daily basis, I can't imagine A) being withou it, or B) being too concerned over price given the generously low price its at right now.
    Be well,

    "Teach, Learn, Thrive"~DM


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyRage
    Part of the reason we dont give out much information is that we dont want to force ourselves to think along one defined path. We could add a catch-all 'This policy may change without notice', but then what was the point of posting a policy in the first place.

    ArtRage is a very dynamic product, and Ambient Design is a small dynamic company. As much as possible we're avoiding doing business the way large companies do because that's a prime recipe for stagnation and lack of innovation.
    A better commitment on behalf of Ambient Design is: "We will keep doing cool stuff, and it'll always be well worth buying (or it'll be free!)"
    Since when having a clear license policy has become a sign of a corporate-decease? I mean, do you really believe that selling a "cat in a hat" is better?

    I mean, imagine you'd like to buy a car. You go to the dealer and all you see there is the brand of the car, its characteristics, the price and where to pay for it. But what about information on guarantee? What if your new car will break in a day or two? In our case here: what if one buys the license and the next day you release v3. And please dont tell me that v2 is as good or that v2 will be supported, I mean, when one buys a PC-related product he wants to enjoy the benefit of upgrading (at least for some time).
    Or for istance, you are saying that considering the price ArtRage worth the money. Yes, it does worth it, but I can show you numerous software projects that are as great (leaders in their field) and that cost either the same or very close (ex: FTPRush-best ftp client, FlashFXP-#2 ftp client, RaidenFTP-one of the best ftp servers for windows, EssentialPIM-one of the best PIM managers; and i can go on and on). All those companies are small (= most have 1-3 products) and their products dont cost much, BUT they DO have a very clear policy on licensing and upgrades.

    Anyhow, please dont get me wrong, its not like im sweatin about the 20 bucks ive paid today. Its absolutely not about that (again, i am not concerned with price/ payments at all and I really do believe that price is low considering the uniqueness of the program). I simply belive that what you have now is a bit of a "cat in a hat" approach (Is there anything wrong with KNOWING what kind of license are you buying?). And I really DO understand that Ambient is not the type of a company that will not trick users into anything, but still, having a clear license policy is rather a must (IMHO) than a need. And having one doesnt mean you are inflexible.

    Anyhow, again and again, just my 2 cents, nothing more )) I mean, if you feel that there is no need to have/ continue this discussion, lets stop right here, right now then



    Kindest regards,
    Diam0nd.

    P.S. I see nothing wrong with having the "Our policy are subject to change". It doesnt mean that you are going to change it every singles day, but simply aknowledging the possibility of doing so, if necessary.
    ArtRage v3.0.4 Studio
    Wacom Graphire4 Classic XL (White Edition)

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