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Thread: 'Lag' at beginning of stroke

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    22

    'Lag' at beginning of stroke

    When I make a stroke using any tool, the color only comes out after several pixels from the position I started. Is there a way to change that? This lag makes it very difficult to write hand-written text. E.g. it's unnatural to try to cross the t's, and dotting i's is next to impossible.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    New Zealand
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    You'll probably find that the 'lag' relates to the space between the input point and the visible end of the stroke, which is present until mouse-up. Basically, depending on which tool you use, the visual end point of the stroke may not reach the current input point. This is because blending and stroke interaction requires that the brush either moves past a point on the canvas or is raised from the canvas before the app can know what the paint underneath the brush head looks like.

    However - When you mouse up, all tools should at that point immediately ensure that the stroke reaches the final point of input. And all strokes should start from the point you first tap. If you're doing a really short stroke with a tool like the oil brush, you may not see the stroke until mouse up due to this requirement.

    If you just paint the stroke at a natural speed you should always find the stroke starts where you started it, and ends where you end it.

    Dotting an 'i' just requires a single tap, a single dot of paint will be applied. If you're not seeing that then it may relate to the tool you're using, please let us know which tool, what paper grain, which version of ArtRage, and what input method you are using and I can let you know what you should be seeing.
    Matt
    ArtRage UI
    Ambient Design.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    22
    I'm using Studio Pro 3.0.8 that I just bought a few hours ago. I'm using a Wacom Intuos 4 tablet. I just found out that if I use the mouse, there is almost no lag. The lag is most noticeable when I use the tablet and set the Input Devices in ArtRage to be 'precise'. If I uncheck 'precise', there is still some lag if I use the tablet. For example, just tapping the pen on the tablet leaves almost no paint. But tapping the mouse leaves a dot, as expected.

    For these tests I used the Oil brushes. But I've tried all other tools and they behaved similarly.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    New Zealand
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    If there's a difference between the mouse and stylus it could relate to drivers or pressure, depending on which operating system and hardware you're using. Let us know which OS and what device you're running on and I can give you some things to try.
    Matt
    ArtRage UI
    Ambient Design.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    22
    I'm using Windows XP 32-bit. The tablet is Wacom Intuos 4 PTK-640. I have Photoshop Elements 7.0 on my system and it doesn't have any issues with the tablet.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    New Zealand
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    Thanks for the info. We don't see that problem here with an Intuos so let's try changing some settings to see if we can work out what's different.

    The problem with a small dot on single tap probably relates to Pressure data. If the pressure curve of the tablet has been set to require a hard touch, or if something is causing low pressure values to be sent ot the app you may not get much paint when you tap the stylus. Reset the Oil brush using the Reset button in the Settings panel to make sure it's at default settings then try tapping at different strengths to see if it relates to that.

    The Pencil interacts with the canvas texture so it may not apply pigment at every point when you drag, this could cause the appearance of an offset form the starting point (the stroke begins at the start point, but if the start point is at a dip in the canvas it may not apply pigment). Try turning the pencil to Precise mode via the Settings panel for the tool if you're making dots with it, that prevents it interacting with the canvas.

    If that doesn't help, there could be an interaction problem between the Wacom drivers and some inbuilt OS functionality. To solve that, try this:

    1. Go to the Input Settings section of the Preferences Panel and turn off 'Use Ink Services', then restart ArtRage and try again. This prevents the app looking for the OS standard tablet support system (I don't believe Elements uses this system, which might explain the difference). If your PC has Tablet PC services running this could well be the cause, but even if it doesn't there's a chance that turning off Ink Services will assist.

    2. If that doesn't help, download the latest tablet drivers from Wacom, there may be an installation problem. To install them, first uninstall the existing drivers, making sure to remove any Profiles if given the option, then restart your computer. Install the new drivers only after the restart, and see if that helps.

    The mouse and stylus should behave in roughly the same way, the main difference is that the stylus is providing pressure information so if there is an issue with pressure data getting to the app you may find that the stylus appears to create smaller strokes.
    Matt
    ArtRage UI
    Ambient Design.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    22
    Indeed installing the latest Wacom driver helped. Now when I tap the tablet with the Oil tool it leaves a dot like the mouse. So you can say my problem is 'solved'. Thanks.

    However, even with the mouse (and the tablet acts the same way), when making a stroke with the Oil tool there is still a lag (but much smaller than before). It may have something to do with how you calculate the taper of the stroke. The end result is that if I aim precisely at a point and start a stroke, the tapered tip of the stroke will miss it by a few (about 3 to 5) pixels. This is particularly annoying if I want to make a very short stroke, like 5 pixels. I may end up getting less paint on the canvas than if I just tap the canvas without stroking.

    I tried a few other tools like Pencil and Felt. They don't have this lag.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    New Zealand
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    Glad to hear the pressure problem is solved. The gap with the oil brush specifically would relate to the taper, and that's something we can look in to. The square oil brush gives a closer initial point due to not tapering from 0 upwards so that might help in the meantime.
    Matt
    ArtRage UI
    Ambient Design.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    middle europe
    Posts
    19
    hi there,

    have the same behaviour with version 3.5 oil brush round
    square head though works nicely...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    New Zealand
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    3,133
    If you are experiencing the same problem that was reported at the start of the post please follow the troubleshooting steps mentioned above and see if that helps.

    If you are referring to the gap mentioned after the original solution, the space between the start of the stroke and the stroke body is due to the way the bristle head is shaped internally, you won't see this with a square brush.
    Matt
    ArtRage UI
    Ambient Design.

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