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Thread: VERY IMPORTANT : AndyRage Said :"What would ArtRage...

  1. #1
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    VERY IMPORTANT : AndyRage Said :"What would ArtRage...

    My englis is not good enough, but i shall try to open a conversation from Andy's citation..

    I wrote in another post (mirrormaskman post) :

    Quote Originally Posted by Weeks
    You know Andy,

    I wouldn't be unhappy if I could replace the other soft from my checklist..
    by ArtRage Pro...

    I believe in that idea..

    Weeks

    And Andy wrote back :

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyRage
    If we went 'pro', we'd have to do work on CMYK support, Colour profiles, many import and export formats, precision tools... we'd have to meet professionals expectations, while fitting all those things into the interface...

    Really, it's a whole bunch more fun working on cool paint tools for me!


    However... let's play pretend for a moment... Suppose we were considering a 'pro' level ArtRage. What would you really like to see added, changed, or removed?
    Photoshop Plugin support?
    Selection sets?
    Editable spline paths for strokes?
    Scripting?
    Precision digital airbrush?
    Is CMYK and ICC colour matching mandatory?
    Text tools?
    Better memory management for larger documents?

    Just for gigglifications, what would make you consider ArtRage a tool with which you could do production-quality art from start to finish.

    Maybe this should be a thread in its own right. More than just a 'suggestions for ArtRage'... The question is: What would ArtRage 'Pro' look like to you?
    I'm sure we are in front of something very important...!!!

    A kind of mission or combat to be delivered.. And we have to support and convince ArtRageTeam about the challenge (they already knows)...

    Wich future for ArtRage...?


    Ladies, Gentleman... It's your turn...

    Weeks..


    Sbug51 already answered :

    Quote Originally Posted by sbug51
    whatever happens to artrage, keep the layout as simple as possible, you guys could animate the bottons, i attached a shot of how it would be like, the tools could just move or slide inside the circle as you move the cursor over the scroll buttons, and this will give more working area and also give you the chance to have more buttons, you could arrange the brushes alone(that is anything that uses a brush like acrylics<i hate acrylics> oil and watercolor.. etc) on a row, and then chalk pencil on another row, i care about the interface alot cause i dont like to see lots of digital furniture around... have them animated, with the option to turn it on or off, of course of course better memory management, and the resolution it must be more than 72, even if it doesn't go pro it should be more.....


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  2. #2
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    Well for my part I think it works very well unencumbered with the pro features of apps like Photoshop. The simplicity of the interface and the immediacy of the medium really define ArtRage

    Developing more cool painting tools and memory management for larger files would be great evolutions for ArtRage.

    For pro illustrators and artists the ability to work on hi-rez files, or do hi-rez post work is a must. It is already possible in ArtRage but I've only tried painting a 3000 x 3000 pixel image once. The painting tool kept up pretty well especially considering the 100% brush but there was some lag and I haven't tried big files with many layers. (My computer is a P4 2.6 MHz, 1.5 GIG RAM)

    Other features might include a basic selection tool and/or masking tool.
    Also the ability to change to an oversized brush... bigger than the current 100% and the addition of brush shapes: Flat Head, Round Head, Stipple Brush etc would be great... maybe customs brushes too.

    The 3d glitter might evolve to 3d paint splashes of different types...you could have a Pollock brush, a De Kooning, a Francis Bacon for instance. When I last painted an 8 foot by 8 foot painting I literally threw the paint on and then worked into it. With Impasto the textures really build up and I've already tried a combo of the glitter and paint tube which work quite well but it would be great if there was a library of scaleable splashes, paint daubs and brushes too as this would add to the already formidable armory.

    I don't think itís necessary to provide CMYK or Photoship plug-in support since most pro's will have these tools already. ArtRage fits nicely into the combo application workflow that most of us use and the fact that it is so simple to use and so immediate really helps it stand out from the more burdened "serious" apps. Having said that make no mistake I consider ArtRage a SERIOUS app... but it also benefits from a very unassuming front end with simple but powerful features.

    The "Pro" question is an interesting one because ArtRage could become the finest painterly painting simulation ever coded... in fact it already is. So you could go deeper into this aspect of its possibilities and/or develop it as a contender to Photoshop. But I think it would then become a very different program. At the moment it's definitely not a Photoshop clone and its more fluid and immediate than Painter so...

    vive la revolution, vive la ArtRage : )

  3. #3
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    Dont go thinking of this discussion as affecting ArtRage as it it now.
    Let's pretend that we could create an entirely new application.
    ArtRage Professional Edition.

    You can assume that even if that should happen, ArtRage 'Standard edition' would still exist and still be supported, and still get more features and tools.

    What is it that could be added or changed in a product based on the ArtRage technology that would make it more complete as a professional tool.

    AndyRage.
    AndyRage's mantra for graphics engine code:
    "Sure - how hard can it be?"

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    Continued Ideas.

    I love the simple interface. I have more room to Paint

    I think it would be neat if you add more tools is to have the ability to rotate the circle to get to more tools like what was said above.

    Another thing I think would be nice is snap in circles...let me see if I can explain....

    Let folks choose from a list what options they want on the Tools Circle and be able to save different circles and snap those into the corner when they want to change the Tool Set. Then you still get the nice clean single circle with what you want to work with. That way someone might want....The roller, airbrush and paint tools one day..but be able to change to a nice pen, pencil, ink set for sketching.. :wink:

    For those that want all the bells and whistles, you could use your top left and right corners for optional addtional Tool circles.

    I also would love to have a mixing pallette similar Painter. Just so I can smear some paint around to the color I want to see before I apply it.

  5. #5
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    The work I see posted on these forums is frequently indistinguishable from non-digital paintings/drawings/sketches. If that's not professional, I dunno what is.

    That said, there's loads of different kinds of art, and I would say that AR in its current form lends itself to sketching, drawing, and painting. Were I a comic book artist or a CADer, I would probably ask for a pen tool (not to create paths, but like a real pen -- what's it called? Rapidograph or something?) and a way to constrain my brush stroke (i.e. shift = straight line [and if that already exists, oops, I've not tried it]).

    - Gita, who's well chuffed that she missed the forum outage. =]

    [Edit] I really also love Vandellyr's suggestions. What a brilliant first post. Welcome to the forums!

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    To be perfectly honest, I'd rather see Artrage remain pure to it's purpose. There are a gamut of "task-specific" applications out there, each with it's own distinct corner of the market (and each with it's freeware/shareware counterpart). It's been my experience that the more you slap into a program, the further beyond practicality it becomes. I've used a lot of expensive software in the past, and have consistently found that spending more on software gets me no closer to achieving a result. For example:

    Gimp already has more features than I know how to use, so why would I continue to pay for Photoshop? Photoshop is literally packed with features that Gimp doesn't have (obviously), but how many of those do I require to get a result?

    Blender is incredibly powerful 3D freeware. Same argument as above. I've used 3DS Max, Maya(PLE), and SoftimageXSI (demo), but could never justify continuing to front the money when Blender alone knows how to do more than I.

    SwishMax is a great substitute for Flash, if you just want to make a dynamic webpage and don't need a web-based portal capable of solving world hunger. It's actuall better than Flash at some things (text/animation effects)!

    Moho rulz for 2d animation (even some Flash and 3D). ToonBoom/PAP/etc. can run into the thousands for full-featured versions, but when you just want to make a character (or a picture of a friend) dance around and explode, Moho's worth every penny.

    While there may be a market for a "professional" version of Artrage, it would only serve to overlap another "industry standard" packages. Artrage would wind up being a knock-off of Painter with some of the post-processing of Photoshop, Vetors and animation of Illustrator/Flash and maybe some of the print/layout support of Quark thrown in. Personlly, I think Artrage handles the specific task at hand (mimicing real-life materials) better than any of the aforementioned. Combine this with the other tools, and you've got your "full functionality".

    In a nutshell, if you're a professional there's an obvious need to be compliant with the standards and expectations of a job, therefore you should invest in the necessary "industry standard" software. Artrage is pure and simple - elegant and focused. Attempting to go up against Painter or others would dilute Artrage's purpose and draw attention away from being the perfect tool for the job. Who needs a "Swiss-Army Screwdriver"? Besides, I defy someone to present a production graphics situation that can't be achieved with some combination of the tools listed above (the entirety of which can be purchased/downloaded for less than any single "industry standard" program mentioned).

    Thanks again to the developers. Artrage is a bargain at any price.

    This marks the end of an apparent rant.
    Thanks for your time.
    Humor me if you must. :roll:

    -Therm0s out.
    People who speak in absolutes are always wrong.

  7. #7
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    I dunno who is familiar with Alias Sketchbook Pro, but they use a similar (if not the same) tool circle at the bottom left of the screen. It has only 4 or 5 tools in the circle, but they "hide" the rest of the tools in a very clever way under the visible ones. If there will be more tools in the future in AR, myabe this would give some ideas how it could be worked out.

    For those who don't wanna install the demo just for the look of it, there's a little image here: http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=6848450

    Once you click on an item in the toolbar and hold the mouse, it pops up a little circle of other tools that are related to the selected tool. Once you select, the selected item/tool image appears on the circle.
    --LES

  8. #8
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    suggestions

    In one of my first paint apps (PISA) back in the early eighties I used a device I called the 'screen switch' which allowed the user to throw their pen (not literally) off the top of their tablet and back again and this would toggle between a menu (full screen) and their painting. The action took very little effort to master for a user and meant that they had more or less instant access to two screens - one for selecting options, colours etc, the other for painting on. 'Gestures' have been developed a bit since then but have never captured the immediacy and simplicity of the 'screen switch'. It was easy to code it so that a user never inadvertently threw the switch and was an incredible time saver for an artist who didn't want to have to deal with the equivalent of the osx dock reappearing whenever the cursor is anywhere near it - it also of course meant an uncluttered screen. Hope this makes sense to you.

    I would agree with comments by others that artrage is indeed a pro app already - the last thing the world needs is a photoshop competitor - artrage has found an area that photoshop is weak in and excelled at it. I don't know how a developer nowadays can keep up with the constant urging to 'improve' their products, the need to stay in the public eye, etc, etc. I do know from my own experience (and this is from an eternity ago when the world was young) that a small company developing for a big market will probably have to get into bed with a big company in order to make it. My suggestion is to stay small, stay cool, keep out of debt and enjoy your freedom. I would also note that I never patented anything and my brothers-in-law who took over my company when I retired ended up paying for it when an american holding company sued them into liquidation (they could have proved prior invention and use but it would have cost too much to defend in a californian court).

  9. #9
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    i think Ambient Design should buy out Corel, Adobe, and Autodesk, then merge all competing products into one super-huge-mega-whomping-do-everything-you-can-imagine product. i want to be able to paint on a brick wall with india ink using a fern branch as a brush! or, how about a carve-my-initials-in-the-sand-with-my-foot tool?

    and, it should still be $20.

    i'm just kidding, of course! just trying to make everyone smile a little! ArtRage rules!



    i have no more suggestions for tools or fixes. whatever you guys do is fine by me. if i don't like a new version, i'll reinstall the one i have now, cuz i love that one!
    if it's not fun, what's the point?

  10. #10
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    I don't know how new Artrage is, but I just discovered it a couple of days ago. PLEASE, if you act on many suggestions to add features, upgrade it in some way, make changes - do not change its wonderful essential basis - an amazingly user-friendly and intuitive interface that allows someone like me to grasp the essentials in such a short time. Don't make it unwieldy and extremely difficult and overwhelming to use like some other programs out there, which I have spent months trying to feel at ease with and still feel I'm missing a lot.

    Keep it the way it is - keep the glitter (it would be nice to choose among several shapes)... and keep up the good work.

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