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Thread: brush strokes smoothing problem

  1. #1

    brush strokes smoothing problem

    Hi,

    Recently I noticed a problem:
    When drawing on a canvas that is zoomed out (when the canvas is bigger then the screen resolution) the brush strokes are made and smoothed on monitor pixel basis, so when you then zoom back in you see jagged edges. This is especially visible when using Ink pen. The more you zoom out the worse the effect. See attached example below. The % is the zoom I used when drawing the lines.

    This poses a problem when I want to paint somthing bigger then my monitor's resolution (which is almost always)

    this problem goes away when I set the "precise tablet" to ON, but then the cursor has a strange offset (I have windows 7 64 bit), making it unusable
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Lastbrat; 01-10-2011 at 09:55 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Thanks for the clear description of what's happening there. The more you zoom out, the less accurate your tablet in general becomes, because the space on your tablet represents more pixels. If precise tablet mode ( this provides higher resolution input ) is solving the problem for you, but you're getting an offset, we should at possible causes.

    Can you let us know the exact make and model of your tablet, and make sure you have downloaded and installed the latest drivers. It would also be worthwhile knowing the make and model of the machine you are plugging your tablet into as well ( some touchscreen devices have problems interacting with some tablets ).
    Dave
    Resident Bug-Hunter
    Ambient Design

  3. #3
    the tablet is wacom intuos 3 (A4 / 9x12" model), with standard intuos pen, latest (6.1.2-5) driver. Windows 7 64 bit, latest updates installed.
    I have the windows 7 multitouch features (in artrage settings) off. Wintab on. Ink services on or off - no differnce there.
    I have also disabled the tabletPC input service in windows, so it is not interfering.
    No special devices or drivers loaded (no touchscreens or anything like that). Just one tablet connected and installed.
    2 monitors though, I am not sure if that matters. But whether the tablet is maped to both or to just one, this offset problem persists unchanged.
    ATI 4850 graphic card, latest drivers also.
    Artrage 3.0.8 studio pro version.

    I also feel that precise tablet mode has a higher report rate, as the circles are more round and less like a series of straight lines, so it would be preferable to have this setting enabled if it worked.

    I remember having this offset problem back when i installed windows 7. It was around a year ago, with some previous version of artrage and ati drivers, so neither is to blame.
    Last edited by Lastbrat; 01-10-2011 at 01:19 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Thanks for that. So that offset problem remains regardless of the tablet mapping ( single or both monitors ) by the sound of it. Can you tell me if the offset is in a specific direction and a specific distance from the stylus when you have precise tablet mode enabled? If you can let me know roughly how big the offset is and in what direction, that may be useful to know.

    Also, If you go to Edit -> Preferences -> Input and uncheck 'use ink services' while leaving 'use wintab' checked, then restart ArtRage, does this make any difference to the offset?
    Dave
    Resident Bug-Hunter
    Ambient Design

  5. #5
    the offset is as follows: when I apply pressure to the pen (click with it) the drawing starts to the right and below the original position of the cursor. As soon as I realease the pressure and hover the pentip above the tablet, the curos jumps back to it's original position.
    The offset is quite large, I'd estimate it at about 50 pixels or so, slightly more to the right then down. Maybe it's proportional with the screen resolution even (it's 1920x1200 and the second monitor is 1050x1680 (portrait mode)), but I'm not sure exactly.

    I tried all possible combinations of the settings. With wintab off, there is no offset, but there also is no pressure sensitivity.
    "use ink services" on or off does not make any difference, it's probably due to disabling the service in windows.
    I also have the gestures disabled in windows, so there is just the wacom drivers present.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    The offset sounds unusual. We've had ArtRage running on two screens here via an Intuos 3 without seeing the problem so it may be that there's a problem with settings. Could you try resetting your Wacom tablet settings to default in case there is a problem with profiles, and see if that helps?

    If it does not could you let me know if the problem persists regardless of which monitor ArtRage is on (set it to windowed mode and move it between screens, see if the behaviour changes), and also whether the behaviour changes if you change zoom level in the canvas, or the size of the brush / which tool you are using?

    If that doesn't help, we'll have to look at what's running on the machine to see if we can see the cause of the problem. It sounds like there's something specific to your setup but we'll need to go through some detailed troubleshooting to try and work out what it is.
    Matt
    ArtRage UI
    Ambient Design.

  7. #7
    Changing monitor influences the offset slightly (I'll explain later how).

    All tools have the same offset.

    I stopped all services and processes that I thought that could interfere, but nothing changed (logitech driver, tabletpc related things etc.)

    Now - the offset. It change with zoom size AND location onscreen. I've done a series of tests, and here are the results (see attached image).

    I've marked a spot (big orange/red cross in top left corner) and moved the canvas as to position it in the corners of the screen and then made a mark with the pen. Doing this for zoom levels of 100 to 800 gave the image youu can see here on the left. The horizontal offset is measured in column K, the size (x axis) column I and z axis size in column J.

    So at 100 zoom level the offset changes from 34 pixels below to 166+34 pixels below depending on the position of the mouse cursor (top of the screen to bottom of the screen correspondingly).

    It seems that the offset is directly inversly proportional with zoom level. The closer I zoom in, the smaller the offset.

    The ratio is constant 2,4 approximately on a 16:10(1920x1200) monitor.

    Now, the second monitor gave a slightly different offset, but following the same rules. The ratio of horizontal/vertical offset deviation was about 0,94, while the screen is 1050x1680.

    Taking the resolution ratios into account and the offset ratios, there is a constant of about 0,65 for both monitors, meaning the offset deviation on the screen is proportional to the screen resolution.

    All the numbers are "guessed" off the screengrabs, and are not precise, but there is a clear pattern visible, which I hope will enable you to find the cause of this.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    New Zealand
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    Thanks for the detailed information. It does sound like there's a driver problem or something interfering with the driver as this is a setup we've used here with no poblems. Could you completely uninstall the Wacom driver (opting to remove any profiles if prompted), restart your computer then reinstall the driver?

    If that fails could you get in touch with us at support@artrage.com and we can try a couple of other things to see if we can find out what's causing the problem.
    Matt
    ArtRage UI
    Ambient Design.

  9. #9
    I've uninstalled the wacom driver, rebooted and installed the newer driver, and it seems the problem is gone! Restoring wacom prefs was also successful, so I think it must have been a problem fixed in the driver update by wacom
    Thanks a lot for all the help and quick responses, much appreciated!

  10. #10
    Well, it seems I spoke too soon I started artrage again today, and the problem is back, same as before.

    Any ideas what it was and how to fix it?

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