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Thread: Corel painter product puffery

  1. #1
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    Corel painter product puffery

    "Corel painter X offers artists and photographers professional art & design tools that are unmatched by any other product."

    This seems like product puffery to me.

    Artrage feels more natural than corel painter and looks more realistic.

  2. #2
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    @henrystaahle : I so much agree with you about "digital photo-painting", I think it's the death of digital painting. It's especially so lame when you see people that can't draw even an apple posting a nude in perspective with perfect proportions and skin tones -- and of course they won't say about the cloning, or maybe they won't say till someone asks them. Really, I hate that so many Painter and ArtRage users are doing it.


    About the main topic of the thread : comparing ArtRage and Painter is useless because they are different softwares with different price tag and different user base. Painter offers an huge set of tools and is currently the most used software in the industry (after Photoshop). ArtRage is a great software that is improving fast and is being adopted by some people in the industry too, so it'll become more and more popular and powerful with time.

    I already wrote about all that in the previous thread you opened about more or less the same topic.

    How can you say "Artrage feels more natural than corel painter and looks more realistic." if some days ago you were asking me and other people to compare the 2 softwares for you while you admitted you only played with Painter demo for few hours and uninstalled it?

    The sentence : "Corel painter X offers artists and photographers professional art & design tools that are unmatched by any other product." is true if they mean the number of tools and techniques they are offering to the user. It is also true if they mean the complete support to all the features of the Wacom stylus. And so on. Beside that it's just marketing and I think wise users don't pay attention to such things, but they just try software very carefully and use what is best for them.

    I never liked fan-like attitude toward software. Software is just a way for getting things done. We use what we can afford and what is working best for us. Of course I think that Ambient Design owns Corel when it comes to product support, relationships with the users and user experience design

  3. #3
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    Andrea - how about matte painters that use a lot of photographs? Would you not consider someone like Dylan Cole an artist?

  4. #4
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    Hi mate Matte painting is a different topic I guess, since the mix of existing picture frames (or photos) and artist generated content is the core of the discipline. Cole is a great artist, I wish I had 1/10 of his sense for lighting.

    I'm not against the usage of photos in art, at all. Only closed minded fundamentalists can think photos are "bad" for digital artists. Photos are a constant needing as a source of textures, brushes, references and so on.

    What I think is lame is when someone is taking a photo and "repainting it" with ArtRage or Painter, that are offering tools for making this process very easy. The result of such tasks is as sad as digital art can get, and what's even worst is that such "artists" are often hiding this process and pretending they are amazing figurative champions

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea View Post
    What I think is lame is when someone is taking a photo and "repainting it" with ArtRage or Painter, that are offering tools for making this process very easy. The result of such tasks is as sad as digital art can get, and what's even worst is that such "artists" are often hiding this process and pretending they are amazing figurative champions
    Could you offer any examples of this?
    Nothing is easy to the unwilling.

  6. #6
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    This is a new discussion. Unlike the discussion traditional painting versus digital painting, which already exists for long time, is not it? In this current discussion, there is the pretension of making a division within the digital creation.

    An important point is that there are, using the various softwares, those who already have a well developed culture in dealing with computers and computer programs, which facilitates the evolution of knowledge in this area. There are real professionals, especially in the graphic and artistic design area, who make their living by producing high quality digital art, or are beginning to gain financially in this area.

    On the other hand, there are the others, other people, among whom I count myself. Individuals who have a keen interest in art, be it in any form. Among these, certainly there is a degree of knowledge, degree of enthusiasm, dedication, willpower, free time ... etc ... for use with reasonable comfort, a computer program, and do what he thinks is art or what he likes what he is doing and what he calls art ... drawing and treacing a picture, using either an interesting effect with a particular filter, etc ... or simply making a dash line, whatever, he certainly is having fun, having a good time and relaxing in its leisure time. This reminds me of Malevicth and his Black Square (1913) and its White Supremacy (1918), reminds me of Kadinsky and its Black Spot (1912) (Figures). Who could imagine who they were, is not it? Concrete art? Abstract art, etc ... etc ...

    I think that art exists because reality is not enough for us, as Gullar Ferreira emphasized, and I include any kind of art, whatever it is, any manifestation of art, a chair hanging on the wall, etc ... etc ... you determine, for you, what do you think is art, period. A simplistic view? I do not know, maybe.

    I find it interesting that for the beginner, that person who has never picked up the program, say, received as a gift from his father or a friend, and that has some artistic inclinations, who've studied art in the past, already has a certain age (or not), and begins to stir the program. In this context, this form of tracing is just one more way, in my view very interesting and do not necessarily represent the death of digital art (because this, by the hands of professionals, will persist, evolve and mutate, certainly in the future). The newcomer, depending on his enthusiasm, can simply give it up and simply want to stand still, or else, like the vast majority, seeks to better understand the intricacies of the program, get used to the program, the forms to better use the tools, learn how to deal broadly with the colors and color mixtures, composition, rules of painting, the names of colors, etc ... and gradually he evolves, certainly evolves, and passes to create by himself. A personal finding, most often not rewarded financially. A hobby.

    Now, if it were not so, then let us eliminate the possibility of cheating the image, like eleiminating: rubber, lace, layers, filters, textures, canvas, etc ... collages, stickers, glitters, etc., etc. ... and use only the brush and the paints. Impossible.

    BTW I have painter 11 a nice program.
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  7. #7
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    @Someonesane : I could provide many examples but my personal ethic doesn't let me

    @orianelima : what I'm against is not the fact that someone is using all the tools he/she has for expressing himself/herself. What I disapprove is when people is not spending the needed years of study for learning how to do things, and they cheat using software functions and they let people believe they are good artists that are producing high quality artworks.
    I wish Painter and ArtRage had no tools for cheating that easily; but on the other end I understand that both ArtRage and Painter are providing such tools for attracting users with the promise of shortcuts for painting masterpieces.

    From my point of view this topic is not even needing to be developed so deeply :

    - if someone uses tracing tools and he doesn't say it clearly, then he is cheating, and so I think he is doing something lame

    - if someone uses such tools because he feels they let him express himself, then he is welcome, but he should say it clearly so that I can give his artworks the right value depending on my beliefs and personal ideas

    And in the end this is only my personal opinion; it works for me, I don't pretend nor expect others are agree. History of digital art proves legions of users are thinking it differently

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea View Post
    @Someonesane : I could provide many examples but my personal ethic doesn't let me

    Okay. Then what tools, specifically, are you referring to?

    - if someone uses tracing tools and he doesn't say it clearly, then he is cheating, and so I think he is doing something lame
    Do you consider the people who use grids or projectors in traditional media, "cheaters"?
    Nothing is easy to the unwilling.

  9. #9
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    Andrea your comments remind me of an article I read a few years ago when it was debated in the early 1900's whether photography is really an art form... After all the artist merely pushes the camera's button...

    I peronsally consider Ansel Adams a true artist and YES he may have cheated using coloured filters on the lens of his camera to enrich the contrasts of b&w photo... So is using Photoshop filters on photos you've taken yourself then cheating or is it merely enhancing your art? Does an airbrush artist then cheat when he uses a stencil to paint onto a car or canvas?


    http://www.anseladams.com/


    Should not the final product itself be judged on it's own merits and not whether the artist used a pencil, chalk, oils, camera or a computer using Photoshop, ArtRage, Maya or ZBrush to help him express himself? Sorry, but IMHO these are merely tools that assist the artist... Ansel Adams is as much an artist as Frank Frazetta IMHO... The difference is Ansel Adams is an artist of photography, Frazetta an artist of the oils, Dylan Cole an artist of matte painting, Jeremy Sutton an artist of photo painting, Aaron Sims an artist of digital sculpting using ZBrush... Each are masters in their respective fields...

    Cheers

    Ken

    PS: Among friends we often have similar debates of which is the greater athlete, an hockey player or a baseball player, a golfer or a tennis player... I think each must be judged in their own arenas...

  10. #10
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    Dylan Cole can be considered the artist of modern digital matte painting then there is Peter Ellenshaw. The master of traditional glass matte painting.

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