ArtRage 5 Product PageArtRage Lite Product PageArtRage for iPad Product PageArtRage for Android Product PageArtRage  Android Oil Painter Free Product PageArtRage  Free Demos Page

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

Thread: Continuing Blending Problems with AR 3 (3.0.7)

  1. #1

    Continuing Blending Problems with AR 3 (3.0.7)


    These two images show a continuing issue we've had with AR3 ever since it came out. The image on the left is AR2.6, two greys blended together to a third. The image on the left is AR3.0.7, again two greys, but as you can see the result is tinted blue. This is with Real Color Blending OFF, take note. These strange blending artifacts need to be addressed. It's been broken now for quite some time and needs a serious look, please. Thanks for your attention.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    3,134
    The gamma correction in the blend can tilt RGB colour slightly away from 0 saturation, but the result you're showing there takes me a long time to replicate and I can only replicate it if I specifically look for any blue tint and go out of my way to make it worse. 2.5/2.6 does the same thing, though the tint tends to head more towards yellow or red, so this is not something new in 3.x. The best thing to do is to avoid overblending when you see a problem occur.

    When we have addressed it, we will note that in the change list for the new version, so you can check the release notes to see if there is something that needs checking.
    Matt
    ArtRage UI
    Ambient Design.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    194
    You can easily reach that black-to-blue blending, if you fill the layer with white (black) color, and start drawing on it with Watercolors of black (white) color
    Hope that helps to track down the problem
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    3,134
    Could you let me know the settings you used and check that the grey you're using isn't slightly blue? I just tried that and haven't been able to get a shift yet.

    We know that the paint blending can sometimes produce minor shifts, which become more obvious if blending is continued (especially if you take the new blue pixel and blend it over other things). The screenshots being posted however don't match what we're getting unless we really work to make the blue come in (as I noted in the original thread on this after the 3.x release).
    Matt
    ArtRage UI
    Ambient Design.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    194
    The settings are Default, it's ArtRage 3 Studio (not Pro)
    In example below I only changed thinners (signed values) and size
    Here I filled the layer with white color and made 2 strokes with color set to black
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ex1.jpg 
Views:	75 
Size:	91.3 KB 
ID:	45359  

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by MattRage View Post
    The gamma correction in the blend can tilt RGB colour slightly away from 0 saturation, but the result you're showing there takes me a long time to replicate and I can only replicate it if I specifically look for any blue tint and go out of my way to make it worse. 2.5/2.6 does the same thing, though the tint tends to head more towards yellow or red, so this is not something new in 3.x. The best thing to do is to avoid overblending when you see a problem occur.

    When we have addressed it, we will note that in the change list for the new version, so you can check the release notes to see if there is something that needs checking.
    Matt, I'm going to try and keep my temper. Try. I discovered this problem in a piece I'm working on. Yes, it is subtle, yes I did exaggerate the example so you could see it clearly. However, your advice is that I what? I shouldn't blend so much? Did you just do the "Doctor my elbow hurts when I do this." "Well don't do that." response to me? I think you did and you know what, it tweaks me off.

    For your information, it doesn't require much for me to see the blue leaking in. It's visible with an a few swipes of the smudge brush, not so dramatic as the above, but it's there. In these grey tonal studies I'm working with, it's plain as day, to the point where I have to run the desaturate filter on the entire layer every 15 to 20 minutes or so. Contrary to what you say, I can't see the same sort of saturation problem happening in AR2.6. It may be there, may be it's a bit warmer in the blend, but it is very minor if it's there.

    I bought AR3 sight unseen, because I liked AR 2 and the improvements that were being talked about were exciting. I liked supporting the little guy as well. Independent developers need support. Companies like AD are where the innovations happen, but... and yes there is a but... you have to hold up your end. You can't say, "well don't overblend" because what IS overblending? How many swipes do I get with the smudge knife, Matt? 2? 10? Apparently anything that shows up a problem with your software is too many. Unacceptable.

    Real Color Blending has been borked with the cyan tint, among other things, from the start. I cut AD some slack when AR3 came out. I said, "It's new, there's bound to be problems. Give 'em time." It's not been fixed though has it, Matt? Yellow + Magenta still equals Grey, doesn't it. I don't know a pigment of paint that does that in the real world. Real color blending does it though. I guess the advice there is, "don't blend magenta and yellow?" Sorry if I'm veering off topic with this paragraph but I'm doing it to make my point. I've been patient. I've pointed out problems and waited for solutions. They've not shown up and with the attitude you evinced in your reply to this grey/blue blending issue, I don't expect it to be fixed any time soon. So I'm going to file this as lesson learned, for me. I'll use (or not) AR3 as it is and I'll not make any more noise. There's no point.
    Last edited by nimajneb; 05-30-2010 at 03:56 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    3,134
    In this kind of situation, where we are unable to replicate the problem to the extent you are seeing it, we rely on accurate reporting of problems and input from users so that we can track down what is causing the issue and find a solution. Unfortunately, your original image didn't indicate that it was exaggerated so we have been looking for a more severe immediate problem than you are describing. It's very difficult for us to help if we are not given full information. The problem as I believed it was described occured when I tested here to exactly the same extent in 2.x and 3.x, with a propensity for red/yellow shift in 2.x (yellow being partially due to transparency revealing the canvas beneath which is slightly off white), it's not new to 3.

    We are continuing to work on improving the blending system and my suggestion to you was a workaround while we look in to the problem and try to find a solution. Please don't accuse us of just ignoring it or trying to suggest that a workaround is our final solution for the problem, that would be silly and inappropriate, and we have done neither.

    While we look for a solution we need input such as the input on the watercolour problem above, so that we can narrow down the potential causes and find out what's happening. Simply bringing it up again isn't helpful, it just distracts from our attempts to find the information we need and solve the problem. If you would like to see the issue improved, I can work with you to get details and samples so that we can try to find out why it is worse for you than we have been able to see here. The cause may be technical, it may be due to specific techniques you are using that we are not, but until we have input from you on this we have no chance of being able to help.
    Matt
    ArtRage UI
    Ambient Design.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    3,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Null View Post
    The settings are Default, it's ArtRage 3 Studio (not Pro)
    In example below I only changed thinners (signed values) and size
    Here I filled the layer with white color and made 2 strokes with color set to black
    Thanks for the image, I can see it when I use that kind of path to the stroke, I suspect that when I was just making blobs and smearing that the tint was being removed by the loaded black on the head.

    Is there a reason you are filling the page with white first? The problem doesn't occur for me if I use black watercolour on a transparent layer, so you might be able to work around it in the meantime.
    Matt
    ArtRage UI
    Ambient Design.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    194

    Smile

    Matt, there's no reason for me to fill layer first, and then drawing - I found it when I was just playing around with Watercolors, trying to make a more beautifil stroke than it is when I draw without filling first. I'm using Watercolor rarely. But I thought that my notice can help somehow.
    (usually I don't fill a layer, but simply change color of the canvas when I need that, also I'm using black colors rarely, so this problem is not that bad to me personally - in some case I'll simply use swatches with gray shades to avoid blue tinting when sampling from image)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Rio de Janeiro
    Posts
    5,897
    Nimajneb, you played an interesting point. This mixture can be a bit tricky with that bluish touch. It may happen but I do not know why?? I copied your image, I copied the gray colors,placed them side by side, connected the interface with the knife in blur mode (size 6 or 7), then used the knife in the blending mode and got the results you can see in the image. What do you think?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	grayy.jpg 
Views:	73 
Size:	38.1 KB 
ID:	45437  

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •