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Thread: My Experience with Art Rage (so far)

  1. #1

    My Experience with Art Rage (so far)

    My experience with Art Rage so far (the latest version, most recent updates)

    #1 Problem: The program is slow. Compared to programs like Open Canvas (1.1 or higher), Art Rage runs SLOOOW. I cannot hope to ever complete an image that is 2000 x 2000 pixels in size or higher, even though Open Canvas (the higher versions) have more options and can handle that or higher sizes just fine, no problem. For some reason Art Rage seems to require more ram, I believe? Unfortunately, my cheap lap top cannot recieve anymore RAM upgrades, and I cannot afford to buy a new lap top at the moment.

    Solution(?): Is there a way to make Art Rage faster, for the folk with less powerful computers? The other versions of Art Rage had this problem too. Could it also be the coding, somehow? Maybe there is a way to make it more compact?


    #2 Problem: Only one file can be open at one time. Again, I must compare Art Rage to Open Canvas because that is the only other painting and drawing progam I use on a regular basis. In Open Canvas, I can have several paintings open at one time and be working on them without any problems whatsoever. Why is it that Art Rage cannot do the same, even though Open Canvas has more options?

    Solution(?): I do not know what to suggest, could this be fixed in the future?


    #3 Problem: Speed painting is not possible. This might have to do with the aforementioned speed issue, but there seems to be annoying "lag" when it comes to strokes (Open Canvas does not have this lag), regardless of the size of the painting. When I am in the heat of the moment (which happens everytime I paint or draw), I cannot help but work with very quick strokes, picking the pen up quickly and putting it back down to make another mark. The problem is that the strokes do not seem to "flow" correctly . . . Art Rage does not seem to "register" that I have put the pen's nib back down on the tablet's surface until it is too late. The result is that if I am aiming for a mark that is, let us say, "______" this long, I instead am given a mark that is approximately "__" this long.

    Solution(?): I am not sure how to fix this, but I can add that the other versions of Art Rage also seemed to have this issue.


    #4 Problem: Reference images now have a magnifying glass icon and an intersecting arrows icon above them. These are very much in the way - my reference images always consist of my color palletes, so that I can choose whatever color I need at the time. These icons cover up some of the colors so that I cannot access them. Why are these icons even there? I could just as easily choose the magnifying glass or the intersecting arrows icons that are available to me just at the bottom of the screen.

    Solution(?): These could be removed all together as far as I am concerned, or there should at least be a way to turn these icons off, so that they do not block some of the reference image.

    By the way, if by chance any of you need a copy of Open Canvas for comparison, 1.1 has always been free - It certainly doesn't have as many options as the higher versions, but those have to be paid for. Just let me know if you want me to send 1.1 your way, unless you have it already. The program can also be googled and downloaded from various locations.


    Sorry for all of the negativities, so here come the praises...
    Praise #1: Oh my God, the TEXTURES!! They are so wonderful. I am in awe of their realism!! Not a single person (these consist of more artistically-inclined folk who work in the digital as well as traditional realm) I have shown my Art Rage images to could even tell that they _were not_ done with real paint, or real pencil, or chalk, etc.

    Please continue stressing the realistic look, feel and use of Art Rage. Time and time again it has been compared to Painter ... And I find it to be much, much better than Painter in terms of quality AND price. Art Rage should cost much more than what is charged. I want to suggest that you raise the price of the program, _at least_ a little bit. I might have missed this somewhere, but is there a way I could donate money to the cause? : )

    Praise #2: It LOOKS good! The look of Art Rage is so unique, sleek and gorgeous. It is a very pleasant experience to just open Art Rage and look around and experiment with the various tools. Photoshop and other more "popular" programs are just so ugly in comparison.

    Praise #3 The recent "paint thinner" addition. This is one of the things I have been waiting anxiously for. Because of the way the thinned paint can be layered, I know I'll be using Art Rage that much more now. It feels nice to use, and it LOOKS great!

    Praise #4 The recent layer options. Thanks to the "Multiply" mode, I was able to finally delete Photoshop from my lap top yesterday. The only time I ever used Photoshop was to make my line art transparent. : )


    One last thing, a question: This is something else that can be done in Open Canvas, but I have not found a way to do it in Art Rage yet (still looking!) - Once I have done "inking" on a separate layer, is there a way to "color" the inked layer alone without influencing the other layers? For example, let's say I am drawing an evil troll or something, and I have the sketch on one layer, then the black ink layer, and then another layer with the coloring.. But then I decide, belatedly unfortunately, that I would have preffered the ink on the inked layer to be red instead of black, because red looks more menacing and troll-like. Is there a way to accomplish this?

    Well, this is all I can think of, for now. . .

  2. #2
    While I was working on a painting in Art Rage, my desire for the following option became increasingly strong.


    I would like the ability to "move" the painting around on the canvas, for compositional purposes. The intersecting arrows allow the artist to move the canvas itself, but what about the option to move the painting upon the canvas? This would also be a very quick way to "clear" the canvas (by moving the painting completely off of the canvas), or rearange a sketch, and so forth.

    Thoughts?

  3. #3
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    Some of your concerns about ArtRage require a paradigm shift to "fix."

    The memory management problem is a very real problem, one that's been documented and discussed here. The dev team have stated that optimising AR's use of resources is a priority for future revisions of the application.

    The bottom line, I think, is that AR is designed to simulate natural media and a real-life painting/drawing environment. So moving things around on a canvas wouldn't fit within that paradigm. That doesn't mean that your request/complaint isn't a valid one, not at all. I'm just saying that the application in its present incarnation is still in its infancy. We users are now starting to make demands that won't "break" AR's "philosophy," but will either enable us to abandon other applications or just in general make life easier for us. And in every case, I think it's pretty clear that the AR dev team are receptive to our feedback and consider everything we suggest.

    My point is that your comparison (in terms of features) between AR and OC might be a bit unfair. AR was designed to be "this," and OC was designed to be "that." It doesn't mean that AR cannot evolve--it has and it will continue to do so--but we've got to give it that chance. I mean, if I wanted all the features of OC, then I would just use OC. Y'know?

    .g

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by justG
    The memory management problem is a very real problem, one that's been documented and discussed here. The dev team have stated that optimising AR's use of resources is a priority for future revisions of the application.
    I'm sorry, but where did they say this? I barely had enough free time to type all of my concerns out, let alone sift through every other topic to find where my issues had already been addressed.
    In any case, I am happy to hear that this is already being looked into. : )



    Quote Originally Posted by justG
    The bottom line, I think, is that AR is designed to simulate natural media and a real-life painting/drawing environment. So moving things around on a canvas wouldn't fit within that paradigm.
    I already made it clear that I am all for the natural media. In fact, I praised it in my post. Among the many positive things I said in regards to this was, "Please continue stressing the realistic look, feel and use of Art Rage."
    Moving things around on a canvas isn't natural, no, but neither are the varying layer options, or the ability to use colored pencils over oil paint, or blend ink with chalk (I used to try the two aforementioned things when I was little, heh.)




    Quote Originally Posted by justG
    That doesn't mean that your request/complaint isn't a valid one, not at all. I'm just saying that the application in its present incarnation is still in its infancy. We users are now starting to make demands that won't "break" AR's "philosophy," but will either enable us to abandon other applications or just in general make life easier for us. And in every case, I think it's pretty clear that the AR dev team are receptive to our feedback and consider everything we suggest.
    I am not demanding the above. I use Art Rage frequently, and I would like to be able to use it in a professional way as well, meaning I would like for Art Rage to be able to handle large files so that I can make prints to sell. Right now I can only experiment with small files. But, I do not expect every single request / suggestion that I give to actually make it into future versions.



    Quote Originally Posted by justG
    My point is that your comparison (in terms of features) between AR and OC might be a bit unfair. AR was designed to be "this," and OC was designed to be "that." It doesn't mean that AR cannot evolve--it has and it will continue to do so--but we've got to give it that chance. I mean, if I wanted all the features of OC, then I would just use OC. Y'know?
    No, I don't think it is unfair. I was making comparisons between the two programs because they are the main ones I use, and I use them both every day (i.e. I am giving Art Rage much more than a simple "chance" : )). Open Canvas works for me in some ways, Art Rage in others. Unfortunately, Open Canvas (1.1) has its perks for me because I can work at sizes large enough to make good prints (and thus provide me with some money I can use to get food with and in turn not die of starvation ; )), and there is no lag even when I want to make the brush a very huge size. I can continue painting to my heart's content without worrying about lag making my lines go awry. For me, a line doing something I don't want it to do even when I am being precise is akin to an English major(of which I am not) accidentally using incorrect grammar, or a musician being off-key... It is just very frustrating, y'know?

    I do not want all of the features of Open Canvas. There are lots of things that Art Rage can do that Open Canvas cannot. If I suggest a feature that I say is already in Open Canvas, it is because it was extremely helpful to me, and might also be very helpful to others.

  5. #5
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    The program is slow. Compared to programs like Open Canvas (1.1 or higher), Art Rage runs SLOOOW.
    No, it is fast. I have Celeron 950 Mhz, 256 Mb RAM, 32 Mb TNT2 VGA PC and ArtRage runs fast.

    Only one file can be open at one time.
    Open one file at one time.

    Speed painting is not possible. This might have to do with the aforementioned speed issue, but there seems to be annoying "lag" when it comes to strokes (Open Canvas does not have this lag), regardless of the size of the painting.
    Speed painting is possible, there isn't any lag.

    I downloaded and tried that Open Canvas 4.06, but didn't like it, and uninstalled. ArtRage is the best software, second to none.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by UndyingSong
    I'm sorry, but where did they say this?
    This is not comprehensive like some of Andy's other posts, but it's the first one I found:

    http://www2.ambientdesign.com/forums...opic.php?t=105
    I barely had enough free time to type all of my concerns out, let alone sift through every other topic to find where my issues had already been addressed. In any case, I am happy to hear that this is already being looked into. : )
    Hey, I hear ya. I didn't really have time to look properly for you either. It's just I have complained about it in the past, so I knew it had been mentioned. I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't mention it again. =)

    Moving things around on a canvas isn't natural, no, but neither are the varying layer options...
    You're right. That's why I said, "We users are now starting to make demands that won't 'break' AR's 'philosophy,' but will either enable us to abandon other applications or just in general make life easier for us."
    For me, a line doing something I don't want it to do even when I am being precise is akin to an English major(of which I am not) accidentally using incorrect grammar, or a musician being off-key... It is just very frustrating, y'know?
    Absolutely.
    If I suggest a feature that I say is already in Open Canvas, it is because it was extremely helpful to me, and might also be very helpful to others.
    Fair enough. It wasn't my intention to in any way denigrate your opinion of and aspirations for ArtRage. I love the application, but I don't believe in narrow-minded "fanboy-mentality" retorts that refuse to acknowledge that there is always room for improvement. One of the coolest things about this community is that the developers happen to agree that AR has plenty of room for growth and tweaking. So stick around! You may be very pleasantly surprised by how much your input actually matters around here. =)

  7. #7
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    Heck I'm the first to admit we have a lot of stuff still to put into ArtRage.

    And we're not so arrogant as to suggest ArtRage is a replacement for your other graphics apps either - we're happy to work alongside other applications.

    We're continuing to grow, and we've got a bunch more features to give to users in the next update.
    And we thrive on criticism - it helps us focus on the features that are important to our users.
    AndyRage's mantra for graphics engine code:
    "Sure - how hard can it be?"

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Levent Suberk
    The program is slow. Compared to programs like Open Canvas (1.1 or higher), Art Rage runs SLOOOW.
    No, it is fast. I have Celeron 950 Mhz, 256 Mb RAM, 32 Mb TNT2 VGA PC and ArtRage runs fast.
    If Art Rage runs so quickly, then why do I experience so much lag? My Art Rage files tend to be no more than 1000 x 1000 pixels, and I get very much lag. It might run quickly for you, but that has not been my experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Levent Suberk
    Only one file can be open at one time.
    Open one file at one time.
    I was suggesting that it would be nice to be able to open more than one file at a time, thanks. It is useful when one is pressed for time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Levent Suberk
    Speed painting is not possible. This might have to do with the aforementioned speed issue, but there seems to be annoying "lag" when it comes to strokes (Open Canvas does not have this lag), regardless of the size of the painting.
    Speed painting is possible, there isn't any lag.
    Once again, this is your experience, not mine. I'd love to be able to, like you, boast about how I am able to paint very quickly in the program, but the lag always causes the lines to be jagged instead of smooth.
    I'm very glad that it is working well for you, but please do not keep insisting that there isn't any lag when I know for a fact that there is, at least for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Levent Suberk
    I downloaded and tried that Open Canvas 4.06, but didn't like it, and uninstalled. ArtRage is the best software, second to none.
    Good. I personally find all of the other Open Canvas programs (except for the original 1.1) inferior. The blending tool in 1.1 is much more realistic, and the higher the Open Canvas version goes, the more like photoshop it seems to get, which I personally do not like.
    Saying that Art Rage is the best software, though, is again your opinion however.
    Like I already said, I'd love for it to be one of the only programs I use, but things like the lag do me in. Other than that and the other things I mentioned, it is one of my favorite programs. Thanks for your reply, though, despite the fact it was pretty obvious that you were attempting to be at least somewhat arrogant to me. I was simply trying to show my own experience with Art Rage to the team. =\

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by justG
    Quote Originally Posted by UndyingSong
    I'm sorry, but where did they say this?
    This is not comprehensive like some of Andy's other posts, but it's the first one I found:

    http://www2.ambientdesign.com/forums...opic.php?t=105
    Thank you for finding that for me!! I appreciate that. I see what you mean, now.
    I barely had enough free time to type all of my concerns out, let alone sift through every other topic to find where my issues had already been addressed. In any case, I am happy to hear that this is already being looked into. : )
    Quote Originally Posted by justG
    Hey, I hear ya. I didn't really have time to look properly for you either. It's just I have complained about it in the past, so I knew it had been mentioned. I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't mention it again. =)
    Ah, I gotcha. No problem. The link you found was just fine, and thank you again for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by justG
    Moving things around on a canvas isn't natural, no, but neither are the varying layer options...
    You're right. That's why I said, "We users are now starting to make demands that won't 'break' AR's 'philosophy,' but will either enable us to abandon other applications or just in general make life easier for us."
    Ahh, all right. That is true.[/quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by justG
    For me, a line doing something I don't want it to do even when I am being precise is akin to an English major(of which I am not) accidentally using incorrect grammar, or a musician being off-key... It is just very frustrating, y'know?
    Absolutely.
    We shall lament together, in that case! :lol:
    Quote Originally Posted by justG
    If I suggest a feature that I say is already in Open Canvas, it is because it was extremely helpful to me, and might also be very helpful to others.
    Fair enough. It wasn't my intention to in any way denigrate your opinion of and aspirations for ArtRage. I love the application, but I don't believe in narrow-minded "fanboy-mentality" retorts that refuse to acknowledge that there is always room for improvement. One of the coolest things about this community is that the developers happen to agree that AR has plenty of room for growth and tweaking. So stick around! You may be very pleasantly surprised by how much your input actually matters around here. =)
    I absolutely intended to stick around, regardless.
    I look forward to the updates, and to what I might be able to accomplish with the program right now. The responsiveness of this community is indeed wonderful.
    There is always room for improvement, when it comes to anything, I agree. Thank you for your reply!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyRage
    Heck I'm the first to admit we have a lot of stuff still to put into ArtRage.
    I was serious when I mentioned that I wanted to donate money to the cause, by the way. Where do I go to do so? : )

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyRage
    And we're not so arrogant as to suggest ArtRage is a replacement for your other graphics apps either - we're happy to work alongside other applications.
    To be honest, I was really looking forward to deleting Photoshop... I know I mentioned lag issues with Art Rage for myself, but Photoshop was much, much worse, and I was only using it for editing. : )

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyRage
    We're continuing to grow, and we've got a bunch more features to give to users in the next update.
    And we thrive on criticism - it helps us focus on the features that are important to our users.
    That is awesome! I'll try to keep giving more suggestions. I will most likely end up repeating myself, however, because I tend to forget if I've already mentioned something or not. I hope that is all right.
    Thank you so much for your reply, Andy!

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