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Thread: Square Brush Folly!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    27

    Square Brush Folly!

    I've been using the demo of ArtRage Studio Pro for a couple of days now. Things seem pretty good! I've been waiting for the new version for a while. The main item I wished for was a "square" tipped brush and I was thrilled to see it included among the tool selections. Unfortunately I am very disappointed with how it functions. It seems to behave like the standard ArtRage brush wherein size (rather than opacity) is related to pen/stylus pressure.

    I know that any brush will expand with pressure to leave a wider stroke on the canvas but this is not generally a desired response when using a square-tipped brush with detailed or delicate painting as brush size is traditionally selected for stroke width (i.e. - use a bigger brush to cover more area instead of applying more pressure). I was hoping for brush pressure to control the volume of paint applied to the canvas instead of width of stroke which can be set in the tool panel.

    Below is a screen snap of the ArtRage 3 canvas with a few strokes. All were performed with the square brush. The blue strokes were done at approximately 45% width/thinner-0%/pressure 50%/ and loading at both 50% and 100%. These are single strokes and bear little resemblance to anything that could be created with a traditional square-tipped brush.

    The brown strokes are all at the same settings except at a slightly reduced width. All are performed vertically from top to bottom (start to end of stroke).

    Please note that reducing paint "loading" to low levels (1%) will not change this behavior. Yes, the strokes appear dry (desired!) but the variation in width still occurs with pen/stylus input pressure. What I would like to see is a toggle pane for turning off width as a function of pressure. Perhaps making opacity (akin to "loading") a function of pressure could be accomplished as well. Thanks!
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    just a thought...a temp workaround for the time being could be removing the pressure sensitivity for the flat brush either by using the mouse or disabling it for the stylus from the stylus controls..
    sometimes I switch to the mouse to maintain size/pressure etc...
    The more hair I lose, the more head I get.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Ambient Design
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    I thnk that's a bug, actually. The square brush was supposed to be mostly constant in size regardless of pressure. I've restored that functionality now, and you should see it behave more as you expect in the next update.
    AndyRage's mantra for graphics engine code:
    "Sure - how hard can it be?"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Milky Way
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    Can we please see a 10 line snippet of the restored code just out of curiosity?
    This would be very interesting to see whats in behind etc

    Many Thanks

  5. #5
    New user here. I'm really glad to hear that's going to get fixed--it's really bugging me, too.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Sure:

    if (m_fSquare) { // If it's the square-head

    return SizeLowLimit() + (m_rBrushWidth * 0.7f + rPressure * 0.3f) * (SizeHighLimit() - SizeLowLimit()); // Size in pixels
    }
    AndyRage's mantra for graphics engine code:
    "Sure - how hard can it be?"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by flyashy View Post
    just a thought...a temp workaround for the time being could be removing the pressure sensitivity for the flat brush either by using the mouse or disabling it for the stylus from the stylus controls..
    sometimes I switch to the mouse to maintain size/pressure etc...
    Unfortunately I've never been able to draw with a mouse. Can you say "instant carpal tunnel"? After 30+ years with a pencil in your hand everything else is awkward.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyRage View Post
    I thnk that's a bug, actually. The square brush was supposed to be mostly constant in size regardless of pressure. I've restored that functionality now, and you should see it behave more as you expect in the next update.
    Thank you!!!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Ambient Design
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    On second thoughts, this is a better algorithm:

    if (m_fSquare) { // If it's the square-head
    return (SizeLowLimit() + m_rBrushWidth * (SizeHighLimit() - SizeLowLimit())) * (0.85f + rPressure / 3); // Size in pixels
    }

    In the previous version the square brush would have too much size adjustment with pressure, at smaller brush sizes. With this one the brush size with pressure is proportional to the general size of the brush and gives a better 'feel'.

    AndyRage's mantra for graphics engine code:
    "Sure - how hard can it be?"

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    241
    Indeed. I've also noticed that the square brush began too narrow. 0.7 is way too much width variation.

    The "real" flat brush would:

    1) start out at *almost* its preset width, say 95%, and spread only outwards when pressed;
    2) produce different-width strokes if pulled trailing the flat (which it always does now) or along the edge. This would require making its angle follow the stylus bearing instead of the stroke direction.
    3) deposit varying amount of paint depending on pressure, not just on stroke length. A very light pressure at the beginning of the stroke would leave little paint, and produce streaks due to bristle clumping, unless the brush is totally soaked.

    Can we have a micro-update please?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by arenhaus View Post
    Indeed. I've also noticed that the square brush began too narrow. 0.7 is way too much width variation.
    I don't know the first thing about algorithms (or even math in general) but I would think much closer to 0.9.

    Quote Originally Posted by arenhaus View Post
    The "real" flat brush would:

    1) start out at *almost* its preset width, say 95%, and spread only outwards when pressed...
    ..forcefully.


    Quote Originally Posted by arenhaus View Post
    2) produce different-width strokes if pulled trailing the flat (which it always does now) or along the edge. This would require making its angle follow the stylus bearing instead of the stroke direction.
    One of the things I like about ArtRage is the ability to use it with entry level tablets. Orienting the tool angle to directional input is what allows this.

    Quote Originally Posted by arenhaus View Post
    3) deposit varying amount of paint depending on pressure, not just on stroke length. A very light pressure at the beginning of the stroke would leave little paint, and produce streaks due to bristle clumping, unless the brush is totally soaked.
    Yes! I'm very interested in opacity control within the allowed pressure range. As variation on the above think long "drybrush" strokes but with a heavily loaded brush. Not exactly an accurate recreation of traditional media but very useful nonetheless.

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