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Thread: Sluggish Transform-Layers Problem

  1. #1
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    Sluggish Transform-Layers Problem

    When I have a large painting with many layers, running above 50MB or so the transform layers tools become near inoperable. Layers in many cases simply can not be repositioned, rotated, re-sized, etc. I am presuming it is a resource problem for large files bumping up against RAM limitations. But I thought to inquire and wonder if there are efficient workarounds?

    Windows Vista Home Edition
    3GB RAM
    Duel Core Intel Processor
    Wacom Intuos 4 Midium

    Thanks for any help you can provide.
    Byron
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    Hiya Byron, this is definitely you pushing up against the limits of a 32bit app. (you power user you ). The maximum amount of RAM any 32bit app can use is around 3.8gig... anything above that will be superfluous (unless its a 64bit app).

    50meg is a large file to hold in ram... each layer you add will add to the demands on the RAM. So the best workaround I've found is to try and keep layers minimum on large files. I basically merge them down with a layer underneath as soon as I can get away with it.

    I've noticed several people have requested keyboard 'nudge' ability for a future version which may help a little

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    Quote Originally Posted by Juz View Post
    Hiya Byron, this is definitely you pushing up against the limits of a 32bit app. (you power user you ). The maximum amount of RAM any 32bit app can use is around 3.8gig... anything above that will be superfluous (unless its a 64bit app).

    50meg is a large file to hold in ram... each layer you add will add to the demands on the RAM. So the best workaround I've found is to try and keep layers minimum on large files. I basically merge them down with a layer underneath as soon as I can get away with it.

    I've noticed several people have requested keyboard 'nudge' ability for a future version which may help a little
    Thanks Juz: Yes, I'm sure you're right. Most of my paintings are quite resource intensive. Sometimes by the end of the painting several of the tools take quite a beating. Thanks for checking in - your technical input is always so helpful.
    // "Appreciation fosters well-being. Be well." - Byron
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    My ArtRage Paintings Here
    // My Comprehensive AR4 & 3 Thread Here
    64 bit Win8Pro, 16GB Ram, Intel i7 Quad Core - 8 threads; Wacom Intuios 4

  4. #4
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    Although when you save on disk it'll be smaller, while working, each new layer is another copy of the original size (eg/ 50meg) in RAM, and the program still has to process 3d lighting, textures, layer compositing etc, so keeping layers down in number will help some

    PS/ I've noticed that when its uber-laggy in transform mode that its easier to precisely position scale and rotate using the mouse instead of the stylus.
    Last edited by Juz; 07-17-2009 at 08:06 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juz View Post
    I've noticed that when its uber-laggy in transform mode that its easier to precisely position scale and rotate using the mouse instead of the stylus.
    Thanks Juz, will give that a try.
    // "Appreciation fosters well-being. Be well." - Byron
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    My ArtRage Paintings Here
    // My Comprehensive AR4 & 3 Thread Here
    64 bit Win8Pro, 16GB Ram, Intel i7 Quad Core - 8 threads; Wacom Intuios 4

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    Even easier - export the layer and import it as a trace image, then convert to paint once adjusted. My old computer just forze when transforming layers, and this method is actually very fast (just, export as psd files, obviously)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flynn_the_Cat View Post
    Even easier - export the layer and import it as a trace image, then convert to paint once adjusted. My old computer just forze when transforming layers, and this method is actually very fast (just, export as psd files, obviously)
    Thanks Flynn, good suggestion. I'll give that a shot.
    // "Appreciation fosters well-being. Be well." - Byron
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    My ArtRage Paintings Here
    // My Comprehensive AR4 & 3 Thread Here
    64 bit Win8Pro, 16GB Ram, Intel i7 Quad Core - 8 threads; Wacom Intuios 4

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    Lol any painting worth doing is huge hehe.

    Make sure you have set a large size swap file in your windows settings, it may help a little bit.

    I'm really not sure how Photoshop manages to work with files over 100mg and still be quite smooth, possibly because with CS4 alot of the computations get done on the graphics card, i have an 8800gt with 512 mg ram and find it works great for files 100mg + which most panorama's are

    Perhaps this something the rages are either looking into or need to look into and that's moving the majority of the workload to the graphics card
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentman View Post
    Lol any painting worth doing is huge hehe.

    Make sure you have set a large size swap file in your windows settings, it may help a little bit.

    I'm really not sure how Photoshop manages to work with files over 100mg and still be quite smooth, possibly because with CS4 alot of the computations get done on the graphics card, i have an 8800gt with 512 mg ram and find it works great for files 100mg + which most panorama's are

    Perhaps this something the rages are either looking into or need to look into and that's moving the majority of the workload to the graphics card
    Thanks SM. The Rage Team has explained now and then that it takes a lot of computational power and resources to create those lighting effects that give us the look of real paint. Consequently, paintings increasing in dimension and DPI bump into resource limitations rather fast. I compensate by staying within a small size range, paint at 150 dpi and use Photozoom3 to successfully scale up to much larger printing dimensions and/or dpi. It's the only solution I've found if you want to paint in AR and then successfully scale way up and print large. It does work. Photozoom3's resampling algorithms are remarkable.
    // "Appreciation fosters well-being. Be well." - Byron
    //
    My ArtRage Paintings Here
    // My Comprehensive AR4 & 3 Thread Here
    64 bit Win8Pro, 16GB Ram, Intel i7 Quad Core - 8 threads; Wacom Intuios 4

  10. #10
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    Oh thanks Byron, i'm gonna have a looksy @ "photozoom 3" sounds good, the other option would be Onone's Genuine Fractals, but it is rather expensive, but i can guarantee you get whay you pay for lol
    Vista Business SP2 - 32 bit
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    Memory
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    Cuda

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    AR3 Studio Professional Unleash The Full Power

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