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Thread: some suggestions on tools (tilt, transparency etc)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    some suggestions on tools (tilt, transparency etc)

    Hello,


    I just bought your program partly because I think that it's what programs should be: no menus, no hidden things, simple layout and no copy/paste!

    And also because I wanted transclucent brushes and thought that thinners would do it (like painting with mostly turpentine with very little paint for pigment). I learned that they don't
    Painting with transparency would allow colored overlays and darkening/lightening of the painting without doing a whole partial repaint.

    It also seems that palette knife has been changed in version 2. It no longer makes that long, slightly blended sharp stroke I used to highligh outlines of objects and to make lighting effects
    Other tools have their personal texture so they do not work..

    But for both of these I have a solution: Computer Millennium Brush!
    It is just like ordinary round brush in any other graphics software. It has controls for softness, opacity, size and the possibility to connect all or any of these to stylus pressure. It has no texture and overlapping lines in the same stroke would only replace parts that are of lighter pressure (it wouldn't be additive, like current eraser for example).
    This would make it possible to do colored overlays and untextured painting to partial areas and make it almost unnecessary to swap between PS and ArtRage. Soft enough brush is also similar to digital airbrush, so it would be two tools at once. Maybe non-additive digital eraser to go with it to easily make partially transparent layers?

    I also noticed that pencil tool seems to ignore stylus' tilt? Is it really so? I would rather tilt the pen than set the tilt manually with the slider, it would be lot nicer for shading when sketching.

    Is there a feature for setting airbrush to not run out of paint?

    Ink pen or calligraphy pen with tilt support would be of use too, I guess.

    From the new additions paint roller is very nice and plenty of fun!

    I think that introducing that one unnatural, non-additive tool would make things a lot easier. And you could do it so much better than any other software company! Please?

  2. #2
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    Re: some suggestions on tools (tilt, transparency etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by hevonen
    I also noticed that pencil tool seems to ignore stylus' tilt? Is it really so? I would rather tilt the pen than set the tilt manually with the slider, it would be lot nicer for shading when sketching.
    I just experimented a little bit. On my system (Windows based), I observed:

    With Wacom tablet, the shaded side of the stroke does vary based on stylus tilt.

    With mouse, the attached picture shows the direction of the shading. In all cases, each stroke was started in the middle and drawn outward from the center.

    D.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  3. #3
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    With Wacom tablet, the shaded side of the stroke does vary based on stylus tilt.
    Thanks.

    But it's not quite what I meant: I would prefer the angle of the pencil tip to change according to tilt (so stulys would be like real pencil). Then there would be no need to set the angle percentage manually, it would come from the tilt. If I would keep stulys somewhat straight up, it would only draw with the tip. If I would tilt the stulys, the tilt angle would get larger and I could do quick flat shading as with ordinary pencil.

  4. #4
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    I think I know what you mean. You are referring to the "extent" of the shading, not the direction of the shading.

    On my Intuos 3, if I tilt the sylus to the left and draw from the botttom to top, the shading is on the left. If I tilt to the right and from bottom to top (same direction of stroke), the shading is on the right. The same things happens when tilting towards or away from me -- the shading shifts top to bottom based on tilt angle when drawing horizontally.

    However, the length of the shading does not vary based on the degree of tilt, nor does it make a fine line when straight up.

    Is this what you are referring to? If so (just to be picky) it's not that AR ignores tilt, it is that it only uses it for direction, not degree, of shading.

    D.

  5. #5
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    Is this what you are referring to? If so (just to be picky) it's not that AR ignores tilt, it is that it only uses it for direction, not degree, of shading.
    Yes, but I think the point is that it should do both to be natural like a real pencil.
    Be well,

    "Teach, Learn, Thrive"~DM


  6. #6
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    Thanks for the suggestions. We do intend to tie more tablet stylus features to ArtRage parameters.
    Pencil tilt does seem like a natural - and perhaps making the tilt control for stylus users scale the rate of tilt (so if you dont want tilt, you can turn it down).
    AndyRage's mantra for graphics engine code:
    "Sure - how hard can it be?"

  7. #7
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    Yes, but I think the point is that it should do both to be natural like a real pencil.
    Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry for being unclear

    It's not a big thing but it would be nice.


    Computer Brush, however, would be a big thing!
    When doing "traditional" digital painting people mainly use round brushes with pressure controlled opacity/size/softness where overlapping lines within the stroke are not multiplied (like transparent pigments would be in real world and in AR). Such tool would be extremely useful to me at least (for mixed techniques like overpainting without textures and for giving accurate control over details where such is needed).

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by hevonen
    Computer Brush, however, would be a big thing!
    When doing "traditional" digital painting people mainly use round brushes with pressure controlled opacity/size/softness where overlapping lines within the stroke are not multiplied (like transparent pigments would be in real world and in AR). Such tool would be extremely useful to me at least (for mixed techniques like overpainting without textures and for giving accurate control over details where such is needed).
    You should be able to use the airbrush much like that. Turn Taper to zero, (off), turn AutoFlow off, drop the pressure control down low. If you're using a stylus you can control the flow with the pressure on the stylus.

    AndyRage.
    AndyRage's mantra for graphics engine code:
    "Sure - how hard can it be?"

  9. #9
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    Apr 2006
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    You should be able to use the airbrush much like that.
    True, but it still does not consider a stroke that crosses itself as *one* stroke. Instead overlapping parts are multiplied instead of replaced according to pressure. This makes it very hard to control overlay by using pressure, since everything between putting the stylus to tablet and lifting it up is incremental with itself. In addition, the outlines are not sharp. Sometimes sharp round brush is very handy.

    Simple example (I would link a picture if I would have a homepage):
    Draw a black stroke that overlaps itself (like, & or 4) with light pressure in Photoshop. You will notice that overlapping parts are of similar opacity or color to those that do not overlap.
    When drawing similar figure in ArtRage with airbrush, the figure's line is significantly darker where it crosses itself. And increasingly so if a whole area is to be colored as result gets more darker the more your line overlaps itself. This is how it should be with airbrush, but it is not what I'm after.

    I'm sorry that I speak in riddles :?
    I don't know what the right term would be, non-incremental brush?

  10. #10
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    (I would link a picture if I would have a homepage)
    Attachments (jpg) are permitted here; the "Add an Attachment" area is just beneath the area where you compose your message.

    Hth,
    Gita

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