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Thread: PNG Question

  1. #1
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    PNG Question

    I read some of the posts about PNG and PSD are better quality to save as an image to maintain the color and detail painted in Artrage. I found out PNG file is very big file size for posting to forum. Besides photoshop, (i don't have this program), is there any other free small program which I can reduce the file size of PNG and still maintain the color and details in the painting? I try to find and search PNG for similar posts but didn't have any result. Sorry if this has been addressed before. Thanks.
    Last edited by pai; 11-01-2008 at 12:27 PM.

  2. #2
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    Well, here's what I do: I export my ArtRage images as png files and then use Irfanview (free program but very good) to convert the png to jpg to send to my printer as they don't accept png files. I have my Irfanview set up to save the image as the highest quality image that it can. Now, keep in mind that jpg images are compressed images and, as such, will never have quite the quality of a png image. Not a problem really if you are just sending your images to the web and not out to a commercial printer. Hope that helps.

  3. #3
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    I will give first the strait unswer :
    You cant find a softwere that can help you to shrink the png files because the only way to change an png file is to change the image:
    to make it smoller or to reduce the number of colors and like that you reduce the png file.
    In here,on the Forum, as far as I know, the only png files are the grain files (for example to have them light I had to bring them to black &white version but they are more precise than the jpg version, it seems!
    All people bring there paintings in here in jpg files (I think so) but I can tell you one thing, I believe that Art rage is the best program to have light Jpg in a very good quality.
    If you like to show heavier images you have to souscribe somewhere else:
    to Deviant Art, or Have your blog some place, put your folders chez Flickr , Google,and for showing in here you must make a link to them.

    For example, a good soft, and free, is Picassa, you find it to Google,
    having an account you upload the images and make them visible wher you like.

    For the vehiculation of the images, after Irfan View (which is the rapid wiewer), you have also : Photo Filter , Artweaver,Gimp,Paint.NET, Picassa,
    they are all free and all very good, I can say , whith complementary functions;
    I will repete myself: I didn't find myself a better software to shrink an image and have it still good looking (but is about jpg files);
    for the printing I think that the tiff images are also very well, I don't print so much outside but I think that it depends of where you print and the dimensions and other details, on the sites is always indicated this kind of details.

    I think I unswer to your question, if you want to upload grains: just make them B&W and you will have a light png to upload !
    Last edited by Dany51; 11-02-2008 at 09:45 AM.
    "All are about quiet and light." Dany
    Daily Studio Notes , Daniela Ionesco-Fine Art

    I accept critics only from friends,
    how about You ?

  4. #4
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    pai,

    I don´t know the exact answer to your question. However, if you save to .png from ArtRage, the image will be richer (but obviously too large to post in the AR forum). I have read that some other programs save the colors on .jpg better than AR, but I´m not sure which ones (as in converting from the .png from AR to .jpg). Keep looking about. The program Robert mentioned receives great reviews from many.
    The only problem with humor is that no one takes it seriously.

  5. #5
    When you decide to output an image from ArtRage you have several very popular choices. Use the one that makes the most sense for your intended purpose.

    Use PSD (Photoshop Document) if you are going to do some clean up or retouching in Photoshop (or cropping, resizing, etc.). This format is also widely used by Digital Printing Services if you need a high quality, archival print of your artwork; as in a Giclée. PNG's are good for this also. Both formats will result in large files, and very high quality.

    For sharing with friends via the Internet or E-mail, smaller file sizes are the norm. For decent quality while squashing down your megabytes then use JPG's or GIF's. JPG's are great for images with thousands to millions of colors (like photographs) while GIF's are best for cartoony or illustration type images with less than 100 colors (sometimes less than 10).

    If you have an image conversion program, by all means use it. If not, just open the painting in ArtRage and export it more than once! No need to buy or download anything else unless you want to.

    Hope that helps.
    Last edited by KurtF; 11-03-2008 at 04:33 AM.

  6. #6
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    Common files to post on the internet are jpeg and png. The reason why using png is it supports transparency, it's the only reason why you could use png on the internet because now jpeg algorithm are very efficient. If you don't have transparency, and if it's for internet, don't bother, use jpeg slightly compressed.

    Gif also supports transparency, but its alpha interpretation is very crapy i.m.o., png is just neat. Gif are cool for animated gif only i think.

    For printing, u will preffer Quadrichromic Tiff (So u have to use a third party software, (like irfanview) to convert it to RVB to CMYB.

    But indeed, as said Dany51, Tiff and PSD are uncompressed images, louder and then with more color informations within.

    Jpeg works a little like mp3, it removes imperceptible datas, so u cannot really see the difference without a real study of the picture at high res.
    Last edited by orbital_chiller; 11-03-2008 at 04:54 AM.

  7. #7
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    Thank you so much to Bob, Dany, Scott, KurtF and orbital_chiller for all these information about the PNG images and explanation. Just because when I read this painting from Danny M (hope Danny won't mind I use his painting as an example) http://www2.ambientdesign.com/forums...ad.php?t=15711

    @Dany, I knew AR has already has nice JPG output. But I noticed when I used a lot of dark or cool color in my paintings. After resize for posting, it made it more darker and cannot see the details.

    @orbital, the transparency concept, I am still learning to pick up what it is but thanks for letting me know how it affects differently when posting and printing.

    I still have little bit confusion, when people mentioned these related issues. What brings me to post this question is when I see Danny M's painting.

    Danny M's Images
    The top one is JPG and the bottom one is PNG. It shows so much different when posting to the gallery and the file size is small.

    top one --> 1091x1500 JPG file size = 171 kb
    bottom one --> 745x1024 PNG file size = 306 kb


    Then I have made some testings
    :

    Artrage
    original canvas size in AR: 1800x1400
    export as JPG and file size = 339 kb
    export as PNG and file size = 5868 kb

    Use Irfanview to resize the PNG file and save as PNG again

    if width is 800, filesize = 931 kb (cannot upload to gallery)
    so i have to make it smaller until width is 550, filesize = 404 kb

    here, I don't understand how Danny's PNG one can still remain large dimension but the file size is small.

    I think I still missing something to know how to do it.

    Here, the first one is JPG export directly from AR and the bottom one is the PNG one which exports from AR then resize in Irfanview. Did I miss out some steps?

    Hope that can explain my question again. Thanks for all the help.
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    Last edited by pai; 11-03-2008 at 05:27 AM.

  8. #8
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    Well, that's it: PNG must be smaller because it got poor compression.
    Jpeg goal is really the internet, so you can post very large pictures with a small compression while the weight could be very low up to 100ko, 200ko.

    All depends about what is showing in the picture, you can do the test with different photography from the same width and height, you will see they all have a weight in ko different.

    Really i don't think you have to try to post large PNG on the internet, it's not what it's made for.

    For the web, Png is used for small button, or layout trick on web pages, most of the time, when you need transparency, this mean a "detoured image" like you see a shape with its outline but the background is transparent, so you can see beneath. Everything else is gif or jpeg.

    So the best then for controlling contrast and brightness is to export your AR work in png or tiff and to do your settings within irfanview for finally saving it as jpeg for posting in the forum.
    Last edited by orbital_chiller; 11-03-2008 at 05:51 AM.

  9. #9
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    Thanks again, orbital. It's just sometimes I read Andy or Dave have replied to others to have the painting better export as PNG format in some others technical posts. Maybe I mis-understood something.

    Again, it's just I want to know if anyone knows how Danny can make the big dimension but small file size.

    ..and maybe I really get used to what I have seen in the PTG (color, textures, contrast) and I want to maintain as it is when exporting.

  10. #10
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    I look to the image that you speak about, is almost B&W, this is why the file is little, put some more colors on it and you will see!
    I think that orbital_chiller give the wright solution to the problem.
    "All are about quiet and light." Dany
    Daily Studio Notes , Daniela Ionesco-Fine Art

    I accept critics only from friends,
    how about You ?

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