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Thread: Can Someone Explain what's happening here?

  1. #1

    Can Someone Explain what's happening here?

    Ok, I know this is not my imagination, but I would love to know why I get such lousy line quality when trying to create curves in Art Rage. I cannot use the program professionally because of the poor line response. I have posted a comparison with Sketchbook Pro to better illustrate the problem.

    Note: Both are raster apps and it doesn't matter if I use the pencil tool, brush or marker in ArtRage,....I still get the same lousy jagged line on my fast curves. Sketchbook Pro does not do this. What is going on?

    I have not used any smoothing setting at all in Sketchbook. This happens on
    all 3 of my pc's. (2of which are tablets)

    Anyone?
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by TDolce; 10-21-2008 at 04:21 PM.
    Todd P. Dolce

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    There are a couple of reasons - not least being that Alias took their line-smoothing algorithms from their $1000+ application for Sketchbook
    And that their drawing tools dont need to spend time doing canvas interactions and lighting rendering.

    But there are a few things you can try to improve the look in ArtRage.

    First up, turn off the 3D lighting renderer with the <F5> key. If you're just doing 'digital' type sketching, you probably dont care about the paper texture and canvas interactions while you're drawing. If ArtRage is spending CPU cycles applying lighting and textures to your strokes it can miss mouse events that would otherwise be used to smooth your strokes.

    Second, try switching between 'Precise' tablet mode, or no. (Edit menu, Preferences, Precise Tablet Mode (Not precise cursors!))
    Some tables, drivers, or tablet PCs give better results if we use the sub-pixel sampling on the tablet packets, some give better results if we dont.

    Thirdly, try the pencil tool with the 'Precise' option turned on. This is a more 'digital' type pencil. Also try the marker pen with 'Art Pen' switched on.

    You can also try turning the paper roughness down to zero percent.
    AndyRage's mantra for graphics engine code:
    "Sure - how hard can it be?"

  3. #3
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    Drawing on a tablet is sometimes difficult when we need very clean lines.
    I won't be bothered either by some optional smooth interpolation.

  4. #4
    "Second, try switching between 'Precise' tablet mode, or no. (Edit menu, Preferences, Precise Tablet Mode (Not precise cursors!))"

    Oh my,..I tried that and now it will take a plastic surgeon to remove the smile from face!!!! It made a HUGE improvement to select that Precise Tablet Mode!!! It is probably 95% better!!! Enough to finally say," ArtRage is for me!!!!" I can work with that!!! Thanks so much!!!!

    Now a way to save the pen settings in a pencil box or tool box,.would be great! I'm very happy with the lines now. What a difference one little option can make. I cannot believe that I struggled with this program for 2 years and just figured ArtRage couldn't work for my cartooning solution. The lines were just unnacceptable. I should have uploaded the image of the problem
    a long time ago!!!!!!!

    Thanks again!!!! (Whistling with glee)
    Todd P. Dolce

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Belgium
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDolce View Post

    (...)

    Now a way to save the pen settings in a pencil box or tool box,.would be great!

    (...)


    I've launched a threat some days ago:

    http://www2.ambientdesign.com/forums...ad.php?t=15465
    Last edited by orbital_chiller; 10-22-2008 at 04:03 AM.

  6. #6
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    I tried also Andy's recommendations, but my results aren't really smooth, need to draw very fast to have a straight curve. Maybe it's my tablet...

  7. #7
    Orbital,

    Yes,..I saw your original suggestion and I had to slip it in again because quite frankly,..it's a FANTASTIC idea. You are so right about habits and the comfort factor. I remember having that kind of relationship with my pens, brushes and pencils and I would NOT let anyone touch them by my drawing table because they were MINE and I didn't want them messed up. They had a certain feel, a certain tip or point that was just the way I liked it, and always went to them for their particular appointed purpose. By golly they (the pens) had to be there or else someone (namely my wife or kid) was going to get a bunch of yelling aimed at them. (LOL!)

    Hey,...what kind of tablet are you using? I have a Motion M1400 and it is a great tablet. (still better than many of the new models out there today)

    Do you get the same issue with the jaggies that I used to get on a fast swooping curve? It was maddening to me! Have you tried the TabTip Tamer fix? I haven't needed it, but others claim it does help. Not sure.
    Todd P. Dolce

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Belgium
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDolce View Post
    Hey,...what kind of tablet are you using? I have a Motion M1400 and it is a great tablet. (still better than many of the new models out there today)
    I have a good old Wacom Graphire serial port. An ancestor i guess (i am still quite happy with it, though i am aware that i'd be surprised by newest products)

    Quote Originally Posted by TDolce View Post
    Do you get the same issue with the jaggies that I used to get on a fast swooping curve? It was maddening to me! Have you tried the TabTip Tamer fix? I haven't needed it, but others claim it does help. Not sure.
    What is the "TabTip Tamer fix"?
    Well, i tried a bit every options from Andy. I have better results with the pencil with "precise" on than with the feltpen with tablet precise mode. Of course it's better but i don't feel any curve interpollation than the one from my own focus to draw that curve properly. ArtRage response is like the real thing, and i won't complain about adding a bit more optional trick. I understand that it must be difficult to set a nice range of curve smoothing, and i think that some softwares didn't find the good equilibrium while smoothing way too much. Maybe it's just a question of habits, i didn't draw with my tablet from a long time ago, and for sure i need practice

    ...

    Oh, btw, the luxury above luxury would be a settable smooth option, with an AR knob of course
    Last edited by orbital_chiller; 10-22-2008 at 05:27 AM.

  9. #9
    The TapTip Tamer is something for Tablet PC's. I don't think it will help you with the Graphire. I still have my Graphire too. It served me very well. The problem I had with ArtRage was that I know my line was smooth and it was ruining it. I used to use a brush and pen and I have a very fast hand thus making it difficult for the digital similuation to be accurate. Sketchbook Pro has a great engine under the hood and it is one of the few apps that can really give me the actual line that I'm laying down no matter what speed I throw at it. Of course,..now ArtRage does so too since Andy helped me out.

    Sometimes I will notice a blank spot (a fleck) in a real tight curve using the brush tool in ArtRage and THAT is NOT natural,....but I'm betting on Andy fixing that later on down the line. I can live with it for now.

    My other tablet is more like a desktop system but I actually draw on the glass. It's a beautiful thing really and I like it better than the Cintiq because I'm drawing right on the screen and I'm not having to connect to another system to work. It's all in one. I got it cheap a couple years ago on Ebay and it's a SONY VAIO. It's only drawback was that it's big and it's not portable. Enter the Motion M1400. It is my do all tablet now and I also got it for a steal and just loaded it up to be a workhorse. I kinda like getting the stuff that is a bit older but still effective and then beefing it up to be better than the new stuff for A LOT LESS!!!! I'm cheap that way!

    An adjustable setting control for smoothness would indeed be a nice option to have but is usually more suitable for vector apps though. One of the big issues with vector apps is this auto smoothing you talk about. I'm not a big fan of a strong autosmooth because then it is not my line anymore. I keep it (the settings) about midway to keep the nodes reduced and keep it close to what I would expect out of my line work. Too high of a setting and it's no longer an accurate depiction of my work. (just my opinion)
    Todd P. Dolce

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Europe
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    1,667
    Thank you Andy for those advices.
    I have my owen problems with lines for the oil brush.
    To be frank I don't like at all the brake down of the stroke when you don't expect.
    I experiment with the felt pen and saw that on the dry option imitate wonderful the chinese brushes, is very sensitif to the presure on the tablette and versatil: you can have like in real life the stroke that can varie from the very thin to the most large and can continue smouthly to the very thin and so on. I have no idea if can be done better on that point but ,
    what I would like is to have the same versatility for the oil brush,
    the capacity to change under the presure continuly and have smouth passages between the strokes.
    I don't know much of the programing side of the soft , I know that some time perhaps you have settings that don't permit other settings which can be contradictory to the first ones.
    Any way, I just speak about my experience with the brush oil and what I will be pleased to have.I ad the image for the comparaison,perhaps I can get some advise too. Thank you .
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Dany51; 10-22-2008 at 10:20 AM.
    "All are about quiet and light." Dany
    Daily Studio Notes , Daniela Ionesco-Fine Art

    I accept critics only from friends,
    how about You ?

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