Has Ambient Design given up on ArtRage Vitae? [Archive]

Woofy31

01-31-2023, 11:57 PM

nekomata

02-03-2023, 06:54 AM

I was thinking the same thing seeing no updates for such a long time - I really love AR, yet seeing how the rest of the digital painting tools get updated like crazy (i.e. rebelle, krita, etc.) makes me wonder if it's still a viable solution in the longer term.

I had so many plans to create quality sets of brush packs, canvases, quality samples and so on, but more and more people seem to stop using AR and switching to more up-to-date tools

I don't think there should be anything stopping you from creating custom brushes and canvas variations to supplement your workflow, you can transfer those between artrage and other apps as well.

that's what I personally do with artrage and clip studio paint at the moment. I brought my custom brush set from corel painter into artrage many years ago, and, generally speaking, I prefer the way artrage works with the same brush sources.

artrage for desktop gets quiet updates every other year on average, so I haven't been expecting anything to arrive in 2022.

previous releases came out as follows:

2021, September - vitae

2019, June - AR 6

2017, February - AR 5.

most new features rebelle 6 introduced were also already present in artrage.

I personally only miss layer masking out of what they showcased, but I have an other app to do masking and compositing with artrage source files, so it's not that much of a big deal.
blur filters are bundled for free in krita, or can be added into artrage by purchasing photographer's bokeh plugins.

rebelle boasts enhanced physically superior color mixing for two versions straight now, but both old and new pigment systems they have to me look dead and synthetic compared to color blending that artrage had since the very start. they water fluid engine still creates the most beautiful digital watercolors to date, but I wouldn't say the app really made so much progress otherwise.

I don't understand their silence :-(

I just think they're too busy working on the app?

kris_lap

02-03-2023, 09:14 AM

It's hard to believe that there have been no updates to Vitae since it's release.

I was thinking exactly the same.
Ironically the windows store / Apple Store was "sold" with easier updates in mind.

Somerset

02-06-2023, 12:59 PM

artrage for desktop gets quiet updates every other year on average, so I haven't been expecting anything to arrive in 2022.

It would of course be nice if they would fix bugs from time to time, as developers of other apps do. I'm still on ArtRage 6, and there haven't been any updates since late 2019, as far as I can see, even there are at least three well known bugs. That's one of the reasons why I didn't purchase Vitae. I'm sure that there will be no more updates for ArtRage 6, but as far as I read here on this forums, at least one of the three bugs still exists, even in Vitae. I suspect the others do too. And I wouldn't be surprised if they would still exist in the next version of ArtRage. That's very disappointing. ArtRage is still my favorite painting app, but I'm afraid it will not have a future if the developers neglect their product this way and ignore the client satisfaction so much and continuously for years.

nekomata

02-07-2023, 01:53 AM

It would of course be nice if they would fix bugs from time to time, as developers of other apps do. I'm still on ArtRage 6, and there haven't been any updates since late 2019, as far as I can see, even there are at least three well known bugs. That's one of the reasons why I didn't purchase Vitae. I'm sure that there will be no more updates for ArtRage 6, but as far as I read here on this forums, at least one of the three bugs still exists, even in Vitae. I suspect the others do too. And I wouldn't be surprised if they would still exist in the next version of ArtRage. That's very disappointing. ArtRage is still my favorite painting app, but I'm afraid it will not have a future if the developers neglect their product this way and ignore the client satisfaction so much and continuously for years.

can you pull up some bug reports and link them here so that they will be sorted in one place, and someone at the team will have a chance to look again on what's going on?

I'm on AR6 as well; I have occasional recurring crashes if I transform heavy layered and grouped content (and forget to save before doing that... ... ...), but I can't think of any bugs that would be a problem for my workflow, partially because I use a fairly small toolset which at this point has been serving my needs flawlessly.

I'm optimistic in regards to artrage staying both developing and competitive, which might be a bit of brand loyalty in me outweighing the future release expectations, but for a program with a small core team, they're doing well.

I had high hopes for another painting package that was shaping out into a corel painter killer for a few years before fizzling out like a storm in a cup of paint thinner (we now get one annual upgrade with no major brush core upgrades since 2021), and everyone else still can't rival what artrage has as far as paint and canvas simulations are concerned.

I go back to my traditional sketchbooks and albums more often now if I get burnt out of digital media, and it helps coping with long digital development cycles.

Somerset

02-07-2023, 01:44 PM

Hi nekomata!

The bugs I'm talking about are the following:

1. If I drag a sticker onto a document in Docking Mode, the Docking Mode crashes, all docks are gone and I have to rearrange them all. This only happens if I drag the sticker, not if I double click it. However, it often happens that I don't think of it, and it is always annoying. I reported that years ago, and someone, I think markw, confirmed that it happens to him too.

2. If I apply an outline Layer Effect ("Stroke") to an object on a layer, save the document, close it and reopen it, the outline is gone. Weird enough, the thumbnail shows it, but it is not saved in the document. This bug has been reported years ago too. Don't remember if I did it. Initially it was another user that reported this bug in the forum.

3. If I save reference images of one document in the Toolbox, then work on another document and reload the first document again, I also have to reload the Toolbox again. Don't know if this is intended. But the real problem is that the reference images are not really saved in the Toolbox. That must be a bug, because there is an option to save the images in the Toolbox. I don't know if this bug has been reported. I don't even know where to report bugs, because I wasn't busy in this forum for a very long time and I can't find a bug tracker here. Might be too late for ArtRage 6 anyway.

I think about going a bit back to my analogue roots too. But I bought a Wacom Cintiq some month ago and of course also want to take some profit from this investment. I still hope that ArtRage will come back to life and away from the Microsoft Store. ArtRage 6 of course still works almost fine for me, but I would wish that there would come some relevant inventions like color management, and maybe some progress that makes the tools more sophisticated. E.G. watercolor effects like in Rebelle, a blur adjustment for stencil edges or so, things like that. Something that could be a motivation for me to invest money into an upgrade. Vitae unfortunately still hasn't convinced me.

By the way, I'm on Windows 10.

nekomata

02-07-2023, 06:56 PM

Hi nekomata!
3. If I save reference images of one document in the Toolbox, then work on another document and reload the first document again, I also have to reload the Toolbox again. Don't know if this is intended. But the real problem is that the reference images are not really saved in the Toolbox. That must be a bug, because there is an option to save the images in the Toolbox. I don't know if this bug has been reported. I don't even know where to report bugs, because I wasn't busy in this forum for a very long time and I can't find a bug tracker here. Might be too late for ArtRage 6 anyway.

in regards to the bug reports -

1) stroke bug - I can replicate it here as well as the sticker pulldown action corrupting the docked palettes, which does not lead to a crash here, but it is unfortunate. I hope you have a stable earlier AR version for this tool somewhere if you use stickers often.

2) I can actually confirm that toolbox in artrage 6 works in a strange way, particularly, it fails to recognize different documents; also, if I start working on an image that has a pre-saved toolbox in it, close this image at some point, and start working on another image w/o quitting artrage, chances are the original toolbox will be gone.

I ended up making and saving two types of toolboxes - drawing tools in one, and painting tools in one, and I pre-load them before starting a painting session, but this is quite useless for someone using toolboxes as a way to store references (I had no clue they could be placed there, btw.)

since there was no mac demo for AR vitae, I couldn't verify if this issue was or was not resolved.

I hope it will get addressed eventually, but, again, there're constraints to having a small team, and some features in my opinion are better delegated to a specialized app. I've never used the design tools which were added in artrage 5, but I understand the frustration.

markw

02-08-2023, 06:26 AM

Hi Somerset, nekomata,:)
The Sticker dragging and Layer Effects bugs are fixed in ARV but not in AR6.
As AR6 is now a legacy app, and only being maintained for OS compatibility presently, I think it unlikely these bugs will get fixed in it.

Sadly the vagaries of the Toolbox behaviour are still present. Notably it’s habit of sometimes forgetting what items should be in any given Toolbox when switching between paintings.
Saving out Toolboxes as and when they are modified beforehand and reloading them if/when needed can help to some degree when this happens but because of the limitations of what can be stored in a Toolbox it’s not a perfect workaround.

The manual has the following to say about Toolboxes:
"…The contents of the Toolbox are automatically saved with your painting and restored when you load it.
There may be cases where you want to save a Toolbox to disk for use later however, and you can do this using the menu button in the Toolbox Panel.
Because some of the items that are stored in the Toolbox are only relevant to a specific painting file however, not all items will be saved. Any item in the Toolbox that represents an active item in your painting will not be saved when you export the Toolbox to its own file. This includes:
1: Layers.
2: Stencils.
3: Reference Images, Scraps, Views.
Items that represent either a file on disk or an object that does not rely on a specific painting will be saved when you save the Toolbox file…"

It’s worth noting here that no actual items are “physically” stored in a Toolbox.
Rather the entries in them are mostly shortcuts to where that item is actually kept on Disc.
So, whilst it’s understandable that, as currently implemented, active elements as listed above can’t be Saved in a toolbox, I do think that it should actually be possible to Save; Reference images and Stencils in a Toolbox as both these items do actually exist in a fixed form and location on Disc outside of any given painting.
And that it is the locations of these “source” versions of Reference images and Stencils that could be saved within a Toolbox.

As for general bug reporting, while there is sadly no dedicated forum area for it, there is a support webpage which can be found here: https://www.artrage.com/get-support/

nekomata

02-09-2023, 04:20 AM

hi markw,

thank you for the linking that page! I think that for people who are used to reporting issues over the forum it might feel like they're screaming into the void since Hannah left, and there's no one else to pass the board feedback down to the team.

I'm glad the two bugs are fixed, and hopefully, the next ARV update will fix the toolbox issues.

Somerset

02-09-2023, 04:29 AM

Hi markw!

Thanx for your reply! Good to know that they still fix bugs, even if I will not have any benefit from it the next time. But maybe I will give the next version a try. Would be nice if also this Toolbox-thing would work. I knew that the stuff inside the Toolbox is only linked to it, but its a very cool feature anyway. I would like to have it, or something like that, in other apps too.

markw

02-09-2023, 07:44 AM

...its a very cool feature anyway. I would like to have it, or something like that, in other apps too...
Yes, despite it’s quirks, AR’s Toolbox’s are still one of it’s most useful features:cool: and I too have at times found myself wishing for something similar in other apps:rolleyes:

DarkOwnt

02-11-2023, 03:35 AM

The bought software life cycle used to include:

A. Major Version releases, which include improved features, capabilities which you pay for because you want them.. and you want them to be in good working order.

B. Updates (not upgrades) which are made to FIX errors, features that don't work, and any other problems with the software, because someone paid for "something", and that something is supposed to work as advertised/described. (software devs... especially the shadier ones -and not to exclude the big corps either- are pushing back on this common sense understanding of what it means when someone buys something)

I presume Devs apportion how much effort should be split between making the current software work right, and adding new features, based on what they think is necessary to find and more importantly keep customers.

[Freeware and Shareware of course just have "releases" which add things and fix things willy nilly at the same time.]

So when it comes to Vitae, of course I would have expected its release to include new features, which it did.

But until the next actual "Major" release, I would expect some portion of the development effort being spent on fixing issues. These would be pushed out (on the much touted Windows Store .. or whatever) as automatic updates for free until the next available Major Version release which will of course cost money for new and better features, and will of course NOT be an automatic update of any kind.

How many times has Vitae been updated ... how many times recently? What was fixed?

nekomata

02-11-2023, 08:31 PM

How many times has Vitae been updated ... how many times recently? What was fixed?

apple store lists four updates for artrage vitae, between release date and oct. 28th, 2021. the current version is 7.1.4, and there were two updates within the first month following the release addressing crashing custom brushes when used in tiling canvas mode. that's pretty fast user support.

there was a deep bug purge with artrage vitae on iOs portables (latest release dated august, 2, 2022), and maybe some work on the android app too, but I can't access google play store from my location anymore, so there's that.

whitehead

02-17-2023, 10:21 AM

Although I realise (for reasons I don't quite understand, as I have never had an issue) AR's move to the MS Store had its critics, choosing not to upgrade to Vitae but to expect a frequent development cycle strikes me as a slight paradox. I have been using natural media software since Painter 5, and the climate now is so different - back then, there was really just Photoshop and Painter, but between CSP, Rebelle, Procreate, Krita, Sketchbook, FireAlpaca, Heavypaint and the rest, it's surely a increasingly shallow pool of potential users and rather like following your favourite sports team, for me there is an element of picking your side and continuing to drop the odd slice of investment even if the return isn't immediately obvious. The collaborative art features that were introduced with Vitae were of no particular use to me, but I'm happy to lob Ambient funds now and then to help ensure its continued development.

Kind regards,

Peter

Star Lizard

02-23-2023, 10:57 AM

Enug

02-23-2023, 04:27 PM

Thanks, Star Lizard for passing on the response from Ambient - it's reassuring to know we are not forgotten.;)

Star Lizard

02-23-2023, 04:35 PM

Thanks, Star Lizard for passing on the response from Ambient - it's reassuring to know we are not forgotten.;)

No problem!!:cool:

nekomata

02-28-2023, 10:56 PM

I contacted Ambient with a generalized sum up of what was discussed here, & this was the response --

"Hi there,

We’re continuing to support and develop ArtRage. We’re not a very communicative bunch, but that doesn’t mean we’ve forgotten our users.

There’s an upcoming patch release for the mobile edition shortly, and other updates are in the works for the desktop editions of ArtRage."

Not a deep dive into the details, but its something.

this is good to hear (by the way, artrage social media is active on facebook and twitter both, you're welcome to join the club if you share artrage content; the community is not super huge, but it's more lively than a lot of niche software hangouts, and the vibe is good.)

I don't understand where this fear of abandonment is coming from right now.

there's regular e-mail communication from the team when new discounts or news are shared, and there's a dedicated space to share your art and custom trinkets here, all of which you're welcome to participate in. I would imagine most of the team are really just too tired to hangout online given the number of versions there's out there to develop and support, if they want to spend time away from the gadgets, I don't see a problem with that...

Star Lizard

03-01-2023, 07:21 AM

this is good to hear (by the way, artrage social media is active on facebook and twitter both, you're welcome to join the club if you share artrage content; the community is not super huge, but it's more lively than a lot of niche software hangouts, and the vibe is good.)

I don't understand where this fear of abandonment is coming from right now.

there's regular e-mail communication from the team when new discounts or news are shared, and there's a dedicated space to share your art and custom trinkets here, all of which you're welcome to participate in. I would imagine most of the team are really just too tired to hangout online given the number of versions there's out there to develop and support, if they want to spend time away from the gadgets, I don't see a problem with that...

I took that notion into consideration awhile back. For me personally, I went ahead & addressed it because I'm fairly, "Better to be safe than sorry". I try not to get too riled up about things like this, that's how you can have lapses in judgement.

cinematik

03-01-2023, 11:24 PM

rebelle boasts enhanced physically superior color mixing for two versions straight now, but both old and new pigment systems they have to me look dead and synthetic compared to color blending that artrage had since the very start

Rebelle 5 seems has more correct color mixing than AR. AR so named `real colors` produces unexpected results and fails in comlemetary colors mixing.

AR default brushes is hard to name valuable while extended brushes are seems complex to set up, unintuitive and slow.

I'm looking more and more at the Rebelle, although I haven't painted anything in it yet :rolleyes:.

nekomata

03-02-2023, 12:18 AM

Rebelle 5 seems has more correct color mixing than AR. AR so named `real colors` produces unexpected results and fails in comlemetary colors mixing.

AR default brushes is hard to name valuable while extended brushes are seems complex to set up, unintuitive and slow.

I'm looking more and more at the Rebelle, although I haven't painted anything in it yet :rolleyes:.

good luck with this part!

I haven't found the perfect single tool that covers all my needs, but without artrage I would have given up on digital art ages ago and never looked back.

the other week I found out that a brush engine feature I liked in recent versions of competing apps (krita and artstudio pro) was actually implemented in a quiet sly way in artrage 4, and that it actually predates its competitors by a decade.

cinematik

03-02-2023, 12:31 AM

the other week I found out that a brush engine feature I liked in recent versions of competing apps (krita and artstudio pro) was actually implemented in a quiet sly way in artrage 4, and that it actually predates its competitors by a decade.
Come on, I even didn't know about artstudio pro since it available only for mac, so it's not really a competing app. My "brush tests" in the Krita made me quickly remove it and forget it)

cinematik

03-02-2023, 02:03 AM

Rebelle simple default size document with one layer take more that 1Gb memory to run while AR less than 100Mb, but these days it's not a big deal. Seems that Rebelle's memory usage grows as long as you paint, but after some time of idle it reduces the amount of memory it takes. Rebelle is only one document a time app, while in AR you can open some docs simultaneously.

nekomata

03-03-2023, 04:26 AM

Come on, I even didn't know about artstudio pro since it available only for mac, so it's not really a competing app.

mac and portables... for ipad users, artrage doesn't really have direct competition, I'd put artstudio in photoshop lite/procreate category of painting tools.

it's a neat replacement for photoshop for people who prefer the glazed, cg-looking style for their paintings. it's fast. it's not artrage, because there's very little going on in terms on paint depth and canvas interaction with paint and brush attributes, but there're some nice little ideas sprinkled all over, it's obvious they did put a lot of thought into it.

I didn't like rebelle enough when I tried it (n.b. - I'm not really a watercolorist, so the brilliant water engine they have is useless for me), but I noticed some pretty aggressive upselling they do for optional paper and canvas options, and that, coupled with tiered pricing for the app itself, was quite a turn off.

Enug

03-03-2023, 06:40 AM

You both have hijacked the OP's thread. How about starting your own to continue this conversation?:p:p;)

nekomata

03-03-2023, 06:14 PM

You both have hijacked the OP's thread. How about starting your own to continue this conversation?:p:p;)

Rebelle and Krita are both being referenced in post # 3, first page of this thread (https://forums.artrage.com/showthread.php?57041-Has-Ambient-Design-given-up-on-ArtRage-Vitae&p=541936#post541936), FYI.

I don't see OP participating in a thread since its inception, what would be the problem here?

cinematik

03-04-2023, 03:41 AM

artrage social media is active on facebook and twitter both, you're welcome to join the club if you share artrage content
IG is also a place to share artragу related content. What is interesting is that these places hardly overlap with each other. Just as you are unlikely to find content from this forum anywhere else.

Claudio Porcellana

04-05-2023, 04:46 AM

Who knows?

But as far as I can do what I want with AR, and my OS allows for that, I'll use it

In my work, I still use a very old and discontinued tool because it has literally no rivals

BTW, I tried all competitors, and even if some apps resulted to be more useful (easier to use in comics) their GUIs with little fonts are unbearable, while AR is just fine

P.S: I know that my OS (Windows 10) lets me increase the font size, but this impact negatively with many tools I use at work (and not only), so it's not a viable option

P.S 2: nowadays, mobile devices are prevailing in many fields, so I expect in the future more development in that area, compared to desktops; sad but true