Does anyone from Ambient Design still read these?

[Fashmir]

Back in 2006-ish when I first encountered ArtRage and this forum, I was blown away by the sense of connection with the development team and the excitement of helping to grow a new and powerful software. I had the privilege of participating over the years in alpha and beta testing as things grew. I made contributions to the tool presets, canvas presets and many of my most cherished feature requests became realities of ArtRage. As the world has changed and time has gone on, I have lost touch with the development team and the sense of direction I felt I had with regard to the growth of ArtRage as a tool set. I only preface with this because I want to find connection once again, but only if it is still thriving and in a state of growth. I am now on a path toward full time illustration with a side of online teaching. I plan to highlight my favorite digital painting software in a series of brief lessons which point up some techniques I've learned in my time making pictures. I want to be sure I am positioning myself well as I commit to these efforts and will only wish to highlight tools that have a future of continued development. One of the exciting aspects of Vitae, is the connectivity possible with other artists via the shared painting feature wherein two can paint on the same picture. I need explore that more fully.

If anyone (Andy I'm thinking of you) still has any interest in connection and catching up, that is what this post is about. I tried a couple of times over the past couple of years to reach out and got no response. The biggest thing that makes me ask the questions pointed at the vitality and future of Vitae, is its very close resemblance to AR6. I realize that goals change and teams change and that a company must make good choices for the health of said company. I still use ArtRage nearly every day and I still imagine it being central to my creative practices going forward. That said the competition for my use of pixels is becoming fierce. There are tools now that offer liquid dynamic flow (I challenged you with that thought years ago Andy) and that work with the underlying substrate to create very realistic 'natural media' results.

The long and short of this is that I have choices to make for my endeavors and it would help very much to have a frank conversation (speculation is fine) about what might be in store from future versions of ArtRage Vitae. I also recognize that nobody owes me a single word of response. I hope I don't come across as invasive or demanding.

I'm off to continue my work. I will watch for a response here or in a direct message and that will tell me everything I need to know.

[Enug]

I hear you David tho my use of ArtRage is purely as a hobbyist. I am saddened that the forum no longer draws the conversations that once kept it alive. We have lost many contributors and they have not been replaced. I find that I have not been posting here as often as I had in the past - I receive more response elsewhere. It seems pointless to show a painting that goes ignored. Tho when you look at the numbers of visitors - sometimes 800+ - it would be nice if some of those could comment. Every day it seems we see a new member but seldom hear from them.

I don't have an answer but it gets depressing to continually see the message "Sorry there are no posts to view".

[Fashmir]

Thanks Enug, I suppose I might be guilty of tracing shadows in the sand and expecting the sun to stay in agreement. Genuine human connection is badly missing from much of the world right now. I hope people still find peace and kinship here.

[Fashmir]

I feel that one of the pitfalls is the archaic forum board format. People want a like/love button to quickly share when they only have a minute to offer a click. Taking the time to write up a response to someone and hoping they notice is something people don't do as much as years ago.

[Somerset]

To contribute just my two cents: ArtRage Vitae was a step into a wrong direction for me. I can't see valuable inventions for my needs.

I don't want to buy my productive creative apps on the Microsoft Store, because it has a lot of disadvantages for me. I already regreted that I purchased Affinity Photo and Publisher there. Will not do it again. And I'm not interested in this Instagram-like social media options. Many people may like it, I don't need it. I would have prefered if the ArtRage-staff would have fixed some bugs that are well known for years, like e.g. the crashing Docking Mode, if you drag a Sticker from a Sticker Sheet. It existed in ArtRage 6 right from the start, and as far as I know it still exists in Vitae. Instead of valuable progress, I see some regressions for the customers. Suddenly the upgrade discount for people who already owned a version of ArtRage was time limited. Suddenly one was only able to install his app on only one system/computer. To install it on a Linux system was suddenly impossible.

The tendency of development simply doesn't fit my needs, so I didn't buy Vitae, and I will not in the future. Sad but true. I still take a look into this Forums sometimes, but I'm not really motivated to be part of it any longer.

[rivrain]

102333102333102333
102334[/ATTACH[ATTACH=CONFIG]102334
petit problème de fonctionnement102334102333102335

[rivrain]

J'utilise Gimp et c'est bien, artrage depuis des années aussi depuis le 2.5 et je m'adapte à la demo 6 avec attention, j'aime beaucoup et je renvoi à mes amis, vraiment.
102336
102336xnwiew aussi avec les plugins de photoshop, trés drôle ;)

[Perendale]

I feel the same. Several of the most consistent contributors have left the forums and forums as a whole seem to have little artistic life anymore. I regret this particularly as I posted a lot around 2013-2016 (under the username ‘hypotaxis’) and got enormous encouragement from quite a number of artists here. It really helped me become a much better artist. It’s sad to see it gone.

[Enug]

I agree it's sad to see the forum dying but how do we resurrect it? I too post here rarely these days as there is little response. We need to encourage those members who join just to get a solution to a problem to return and post their paintings. Then it is up to us (all) to applaud their efforts and offer encouragement. If we want members to connect with us and acknowledge our posts we should make an effort and return the favour. Just saying!:)

[Perendale]

I agree with all of that. I am cautious about advising other artists because I have no training myself and haven’t been painting very long, so it feels a bit arrogant. Maybe I just need to get over myself, eh? But if the forums are going to revive it will take people like us to do it.

[Enug]

I'm sorry if it looked like I was suggesting we give artistic advice (unless asked for) but surely we can find words to praise the effort taken to show us new works. Even if it is to acknowledge that we have viewed the post and appreciate the effort the artist has put into it could be enough to encourage further participation in the forum.:)

[Somerset]

I can only judge this topic from my point of view. And in my opinion, if I watch the inventions of ArtRage during the last years, it falls back behind its competitors (like Rebelle 5, Adobe Fresco, and even Krita is gaining more and more) and looses attractivity. I want to use Artrage as a serious productive app, not as a toy. So it would have been more important for me that the old annoying bugs would have been fixed than to be able to paint together with others or so. That is nothing that's worth to pay for. At least for me. E.g. Rebelle 5 introduced Micropixels. Haven't tested it yet, but it sounds like a really interesting technical breakthrough. Expensive but probably worth its money. But where are the relevant and valuable inventions in ArtRage?

This is also the main reason why I almost turned my back to this forum.

[DarkOwnt]

Somerset

The writing on the wall **seems** to be that this thing is no longer a passion for the owners.

That's natural, real people have real lives and real interests/goals/aspirations in life... its very possible this is at the "been there done that" stage and perhaps mixed in with "I'm not ready to let it go".


The final stage of software in such a state is usually complete sale and unfortunately the buyers tend to be completely hands off (coming in and understanding the program and making meaningful changes is very difficult and costly for a new team) and just package it with other software without any sort of integration... or just keep selling with cosmetic and minor changes, leaving all the core functionality as it is.

Also, it is close to impossible to "merge" software packages which generally have completely different internals and mechanics...


This is all just speculation but it is clear that things feel different... like it is sailing into the sunset.

[Stephen Lo Piano]

You might be on to something here.

My personal opinion (and by no means am I an expert on the subject) is the rise of smart-cell phones that have replaced desktop and laptop computers may be the reason for changes in the direction you have highlighted here on this thread.

[nekomata]

I can only judge this topic from my point of view. And in my opinion, if I watch the inventions of ArtRage during the last years, it falls back behind its competitors (like Rebelle 5, Adobe Fresco, and even Krita is gaining more and more) and looses attractivity. I want to use Artrage as a serious productive app, not as a toy. So it would have been more important for me that the old annoying bugs would have been fixed than to be able to paint together with others or so. That is nothing that's worth to pay for. At least for me. E.g. Rebelle 5 introduced Micropixels. Haven't tested it yet, but it sounds like a really interesting technical breakthrough. Expensive but probably worth its money. But where are the relevant and valuable inventions in ArtRage?

This is also the main reason why I almost turned my back to this forum.

haven't noticed artrage falling back behind fresco at all, maybe I haven't looked hard enough?

rebelle has certain things done really well about it, but it comes with € 10—€189,99 paper bundle purchases, adding quite a bit on top of the price tag, and performance-wise, artrage is a preferred choice for many, particularly with desktop systems going up in price over the recent years.

krita is free, and it is more or less understood that with artrage you get a natural media simulation package; for higher end CG art, you'll pick up a second or third application, and there's no shortage of options at the moment.

they don't compete, they co-exist with artrage.

[Somerset]

I just wanted to share my opinion, concerning the topic why this forums become more and more deserted, in a democratic way. In my opinion it might have to do with that there is too less relevant progress in the development of ArtRage. Respectively the progress I see doesn't point into a direction that is attractive and worth to pay for - for me. But if you have a different opinion, it is of course absolutely okay. If ArtRage shall become a sort of fancy toy in the future, rather than a serious professional painting app, I will not need it and of course not buy it. Why should I?

And as I already said, the other point is, that, while the developers developed this - for me - useless features, they neglected bugs that were well known for years (the last update for AR6 was in Oct 2019, as far as I remember). E.g. the crashing Docking Mode and the Outlines that can't be exported. Both reported years ago. That means, that users paid for faulty software and the manufacturers didn't do anything to fix it. To the contrary, they bequested it to the following version. That's not really inspiring confidence, I think. However, I'm not lucky with that, so I'm still working with ArtRage 6 until I find something better.

And at the moment it seems that Rebelle 5 might be my next choice. Those expensive canvas bundles are of course an argument. But I think it will be possible to create own canvases, as I also create the most of my additional stuff for all of the graphic apps I work with on my own. And "competition or coexistence"... - it doesn't matter, because you can also paint very nice paintings with Krita, Fresco, Affinity Photo... or even a simple app like MyPaint. I know a female artist who creates marvelous Fantasy-Art with GIMP - much better than many artists do with ArtRage.

The long and short of it: I really loved ArtRage right from the moment I first saw it. But as it seems, it is now going into a direction I can't use it. Possibly this is also the reason why other people turn their backs to it. I don't really know.

[nekomata]

And as I already said, the other point is, that, while the developers developed this - for me - useless features, they neglected bugs that were well known for years (the last update for AR6 was in Oct 2019, as far as I remember). E.g. the crashing Docking Mode and the Outlines that can't be exported. Both reported years ago. That means, that users paid for faulty software and the manufacturers didn't do anything to fix it. To the contrary, they bequested it to the following version. That's not really inspiring confidence, I think. However, I'm not lucky with that, so I'm still working with ArtRage 6 until I find something better.

I personally don't have the issues with docking mode.

artrage does have a certain amount of crashing to it, but it's minuscule compared to many other packages. *every* package out there I have used to date has issues that take their developers more than a single release cycle to fix. some issues just don't have the same urgency to them, or aren't easy to tackle directly.

in case with artrage, I personally come from ten years of using cor*l painter that always (literally always) provides inferior solutions to user feature requests, and inferior fixes to weird, hard to figure out new issues, created by the development team throughout application development. fresco has adobe's marketing team trying to hype it up (which they do with a degree of success), but are the tools over there actually worth wasting time with it?

artrage, in comparison, is reliable, stable, and humble. the oil brush and custom brush tools they have working there suit my needs much better than rebelle, or any other app out there - I've used them all, if they had a port for mac.



And at the moment it seems that Rebelle 5 might be my next choice. Those expensive canvas bundles are of course an argument. But I think it will be possible to create own canvases, as I also create the most of my additional stuff for all of the graphic apps I work with on my own. And "competition or coexistence"... - it doesn't matter, because you can also paint very nice paintings with Krita, Fresco, Affinity Photo... or even a simple app like MyPaint. I know a female artist who creates marvelous Fantasy-Art with GIMP - much better than many artists do with ArtRage.

The long and short of it: I really loved ArtRage right from the moment I first saw it. But as it seems, it is now going into a direction I can't use it. Possibly this is also the reason why other people turn their backs to it. I don't really know.

good luck with your rebelle adventures, and I hope you're happier over there compared to what you have with artrage?.. by all means, pick the tools that make you productive and creative, it's your right as a creator shopping for art supplies in a painting application market.

I hate all of the packages you have listed because they feel clumsy, and getting art produced in them (gimp in particular) to look non-digital is a chore and a matter of faking and faking and faking the right canvas and paint treatment - something that artrage allows pretty much out of box. I use other apps on the side with artrage, but the core of what I'm creating depends on it. there's just nothing out there that would compare to the same paint mixing realism that artrage has going on, even if the development pace no longer excites you.

by the way, artrage twitter and facebook community are both quite lively places, I'm not sure why you consider the decline of forum image sharing format as some sort of omen for the artrage future.

people are just generally too lazy to register on a forum if whatever they'll share here isn't immediately available to be shared on the social media.

[Sethren]

:confused:

[Somerset]

@nekomata
I absolutely accept your standpoint. But I have a different one. I'm working with ArtRage for many years and always was very satisfied. But if I look at Vitae, there is not much worth to pay for for me. ArtRage is a tool for me, not a fetish. And not a toy. If it fits my needs, I will buy it. If not, I don't. And if ArtRage suddenly only is available via the Microsoft and Apple Stores, it is a significant disadvantage for me. Especially if the Upgrade-Discount for owners of former versions suddenly is time limited at the same time. This of course doesn't make the app more attractive for me.

The issue with the crashing Docking Mode has been reported here by several users several times since 2019. I reported it directly to the support early 2020, as far as I remember. It is a very annoying thing if suddenly all Docks disappear while you are painting, and you have to reconfigure the whole GUI. markw offered a workaround to save the GUI-layout, long time ago. But it is annoying anyway. Even you may possibly not be affected (possibly only a Windows issue?). And as I read here on the forums, this issue still exists, also on Vitae. If the issue with the Outlines that can't be exported, is solved in the meantime... I don't know. On ArtRage 6, it isn't fixed.

As I said, I always really loved ArtRage. That's why I'm so disappointed now. I'm still glad to have ArtRage 6 and will still have an eye on the further development of ArtRage. Maybe I will purchase some future version again. But Vitae is not interesting for me.

[nekomata]

The issue with the crashing Docking Mode has been reported here by several users several times since 2019. I reported it directly to the support early 2020, as far as I remember. It is a very annoying thing if suddenly all Docks disappear while you are painting, and you have to reconfigure the whole GUI. markw offered a workaround to save the GUI-layout, long time ago. But it is annoying anyway.

I've had something similar happen in a different application, but if your bug report has been not answered to day with no resolution or workaround in sight, I would assume that the program issue is rooted on the OS-level (no such issue on mac across several mac os versions), and is hard to figure out.

in my experience with past ArtRage versions, reported bugs or odd tool behaviors were fixed very fast, and the team rolled out an update to address things very promptly.


As I said, I always really loved ArtRage. That's why I'm so disappointed now. I'm still glad to have ArtRage 6 and will still have an eye on the further development of ArtRage. Maybe I will purchase some future version again. But Vitae is not interesting for me.

we have roughly a year until the next release.

in the meantime, you can explore the alternatives, or you can focus on making the best out of artrage version you have.

if I remember this correctly, artrage team promised to keep artrage 6 supported for as long as it's offered for sale, so there might be a patch coming out to address your issue. I don't know. you can contact the technical support again, or message them on social media to get some clarification. they aren't very active on these boards anymore since Hannah left.

I understand the frustration, but the grass is really not always greener on the other side; artrage is still a great application with stellar paint simulation.

I'm sorry that your interface issues break your workflow so much.

[Somerset]

@nekomata
In my experience, the Docking Mode only crashes if one drags a sticker from a sticker sheet onto the canvas. I don't know if there are other things that make it crash too. In fact I use the sticker sheets sometimes, but of course not every time I'm working with ArtRage. So it is not completely useless, not to be misunderstood. To place stickers per double click doesn't cause crashes. But one has to think of it permanently. And to drag them directly to the place where you want them is much more intuitive than double clicking, what places them somewhere on the right side of the canvas. One false move and the docks are gone. In such cases it is damn annoying.

Maybe you are right that ArtRage 6 is still supported. But in fact, as I already said, there haven't been any updates since late 2019(!). I don't really believe there will be some in the future. To be honest, I already wasn't sure if it was worth it to upgrade from ArtRage 5 to 6. I don't regret that I did it anyway, because at least the Custom Brush has become better, and the Guides, but I think that the development of ArtRage is very stagnant the last years. That was what I meant with the competitors in my last posts. I'm still not absolutely sure if Rebelle 5 will fit my needs better than ArtRage 6, even it badly seems so, because I haven't tested it yet, the same with Fresco (that can't be purchased, but hired, what is annoying too), and of course Krita and MyPaint and others haven't reached the level of nativeness that ArtRage offers, as far as I know. But if you compare the progress of these apps (except MyPaint) with ArtRage's progress, you will see that their developers are much busier in making their apps better. Especially in creating features that are relevant for high quality painting. And that's what should have priority for ArtRage too, I think. But of course it is Ambient's decision what they want to do, and it is ours if we want to buy it then.

By the way, does anyone know if ArtRage 6 works well on Windows 11?

[Toniasketcher]

I have artrage 6 for windows 11. I haven't spent enough time in it to offer any real insight but the brushes are fantastic. I have noticed a freezing situation after impoting reference images not sure if it's an app issue or a file size disks space issue.

[Somerset]

Hi Toniasketcher!

Thanks for your reply. So AR 6 generally works on Win 11? That would be great. Is this freezing permanently or only for a moment? I have temporal freezings also in other apps on Windows 10 sometimes. Seems to be a Windows-related thing. But the Reference-feature is important for me.

However, I think I will have to upgrade to Win 11 anyway. If Artrage 6 will not work on it as I need it, it will be the final kick for me to change to another app. Vitae is no option for me.

Thanks again and best wishes!

[Expat]

I'm new to desktop Artrage (Vitae is my first version), have had the Android app for longer. Posts about the Microsoft Store make me almost feel guilty for buying it there (they didn't make it easy to spend my money in their buggy store). I've used Clip Studio Paint, which is excellent for everything but natural color blending and real time interaction with the canvas. I also own Rebelle 3, tried the demo version of 5. It seemed funny that they justify their price hike largely with brush engine and canvas interaction features that Artrage always had. Rebelle is impressive, but it's a resource hog that can easily bring many computers to the brink.

I can't help noticing that old Artrage tutorials are still relevant because the interface has not changed as much as in some apps. Daniel Ibanez, the YouTube guy who introduced me to Artrage in the first place, confirms that most of the new features in Vitae are under the hood, more efficiency with larger files, faster saving, fewer crashes. Some Artrage features that may be ho-hum for many here are still exciting for me. Also, I like a fairly simple interface that is learnable and stays out of the way, especially with the tab key. The project I'm trying to do is a series of illustrations for a songbook, I'm a hobbyist songwriter and wannabe artist. Several softwares and approaches could be good choices, but simulation of natural media seems the way to go at this point.

Facebook, or Farcebook, gives you instant feedback, but topics are lost in the flood of new posts, it's all a bit disjointed. It's been over a week, and my first post wasn't approved yet. Anyway, I'm looking forward to being part of this community.

[markw]

I'm new to desktop Artrage (Vitae is my first version), have had the Android app for longer...
Hello Expat and welcome to the ArtRage forums :)
Good to hear that ARV is meeting your artistic needs!:cool:
Though the desktop versions of AR have a similar user friendly interface, they do offer a lot more functionality beyond that found in the mobile versions, like the Android version you are familiar with.
So if you have questions, ask away! People around here are always willing to help when and where they can
And good luck with your songbook project, and perhaps you will favour us with some illustrations from it in due course!:rolleyes:

[Expat]

[QUOTE=markw;540796]Hello Expat and welcome to the ArtRage forums :)
Good to hear that ARV is meeting your artistic needs!:cool:
Though the desktop versions of AR have a similar user friendly interface, they do offer a lot more functionality beyond that found in the mobile versions, like the Android version you are familiar with.
So if you have questions, ask away! People around here are always willing to help when and where they can
And good luck with your songbook project, and perhaps you will favour us with some illustrations from it in due time.

102438

Let's see if the upload succeeded. I'd put it in the WIP thread, but it's a test picture (for a children's song about mice who live on the moon). I had a lot of trouble controlling brushes and blending colors, used the knife too much. I can't expect a masterpiece right at the start. Thanks for the prompt and friendly answer. This image has with filter layers with overlay to add texture as in an old tutorial by someonesane.

[Enug]

Excellent first painting Expat and the texture really makes a difference. Children will love it.:cool::cool: BTW more people will see this post if you make a new post of your own in Gallery - Art Gallery or WIP as you suggested. This way you will not be tacked on the end of another unrelated post. Just a gentle hint.:)

A member who has since retired from the forum used to keep it tidy removing spam and unwanted images. Let's see if he has passed on his hat.:D

[Expat]

Excellent first painting Expat and the texture really makes a difference. Children will love it.:cool::cool: BTW more people will see this post if you make a new post of your own in Gallery - Art Gallery or WIP as you suggested. This way you will not be tacked on the end of another unrelated post. Just a gentle hint.:)

A member who has since retired from the forum used to keep it tidy removing spam and unwanted images. Let's see if he has passed on his hat.:D

I completely agree with you, normally a WIP should be in that thread. Hopefully I will soon have a real Illustration #1 to post there. The only advice I'm likely to get on this test is "Learn to use your brush." Anyway, thanks for the encouragement. Figured out how to delete an image in my profile, settings! One step at a time.