mixing oil & watercolor - discussion

[a_dt]

Something that's been on my mind since a while...:
Do you AR users mix oil paint and watercolor on one layer?
I ask because.....

Sometimes I like to make my oil brush strokes a little blurry... on canvas (I had been painting with "real" :p paint more than 10 years...) I used much thinners in order to do that... but somehow, I do not get the same effect in AR using much thinners (I still play around with the thinners, but the effects are different)... so, what I found out, watercolor brush does what I used to do with thinners on paper. So, I use it :)
With actual physical paint, this was a no-no for me, never tried :D I just think it wouldn't mix at all as... one uses water, the other oil ... obviously.

So, ... my question above :) What is your opinion about this?
Each time I mix the two I feel "guilty" :cool:. But it looks ok to me :D

This is NOT a technical question, (technical question => how to do it etc), but a discussion about ... art ethics and art-blasphemy :D

[nekomata]

if it works...it works??


Each time I mix the two I feel "guilty" :cool:.

look up coping with OCD approaches


But it looks ok to me :D

that's what really matters! ❤️

[a_dt]

look up coping with OCD approaches
;)
no no it's not that bad! I just wanted to know what others think of that.

I guess that people who were painting with physical paint before using AR, try to use AR as if they are dealing with real paint, am I wrong? I would like others answer a bit to that... I'd like to hear some more opinions ;)

[WebRage]

Hi,

Most artists definitely don't like mixing oil paints with watercolors, or combining wet/dry media, etc. However, in reality there are no rules! It's more an intimidating thing of not being sure what will happen.

Take a look at the work from artist, Paul Klee. For example, his "Fish Image" mixed media painting. There's a tendency for oil-based media to resist. Therefore acrylics painted on top of oil paint will not adhere well and just sticks between it. It's hard to control in real life, but can create some interesting effects.
https://www.wikiart.org/en/paul-klee/fish-image-1925

There's probably a lot of reactions we might not know about, don't be afraid to experiment. Let us know if you find something interesting and wish ArtRage could do that too!
With ArtRage, you at least don't need to be worried about destroying your brushes and painting. There's always an undo button too.

[a_dt]

I'm somehow surprised why not more people answer here... I seem to be the only one finding it strange that in AR oil and water mix so well as though in reality :) it does not.

Therefore acrylics painted on top of oil paint will not adhere well and just sticks between it. do you mean watercolor with acrylic paint?
In AR water color mixes quite well with oil...
Also like I said above, thinners in oil does not make the oil paint "run" as physical paint... so that's why I use watercolors instead of much thinners to blur the oil paint in places.

Ok I just posted the image as an example for instance where I mix watercolor in oil here:
https://forums.artrage.com/showthread.php?53256-mixing-oil-and-watercolor-(kitten)&p=519221#post519221
(the image is not quite finished... )

[Enug]

With ArtRage you can mix different tools as you wish. It may not work successfully in traditional media but with digital whatever works for you works. There is no 'cheating' or feeling 'guilty'.

[DemieLune]

I agree with Enug ^_^

I'm also from traditional art materials and I do remember having this conversation with teacher when I was in ArtSchool in College (like, 15-20 years ago) ;) :P
I remember they said that some people likes to do things "by the book" and the most traditional way and would feel like getting into sacrilege if they would do otherwise.
But in the other hand, there's a group of people, "rebels", who will push the limits of materials and cultural traditions. Remember Picasso? The first time he made a sculpture with wood and cardboard mixed, or the ceramic plate with a fishbone and presented it in an art gallery, it was very shocking, because it wasn't made out of "noble material" (like bronze, marble...), and ceramic was, back then, crafting, not Art! But now, it's a trivial thing to see artworks make out ceramic or wood or mixed media. This bold movement from Picasso did make Art to grow and move on into a new era of creativity.

Nowadays, digital art is the new thing. There's no "original" painting but multiple prints. We're breaking the "nobility" of Art once more, maybe make it more profane, but also more easily accessible to anyone. This IS a philosophal discussion indeed, and there's no "right" or "wrong" answer to this, but you can choose your "church" :p you team, your opinion on this matter :P I'm on the rebellious side ;) Rules are made to be broken! ;) Yes, with real material, oil and water doesn't mix (unless you use Winsor & Newton "artist" oil/water paint... not recommended ;) :P ) and if you can "cheat" reality with AR, than you can! :D You can't do "undo" in-real-life, you can't add layers, delete, save, etc. All these tools have been added into digital painting and are not considered "cheating", but great tools to take advantage of ;) So if you can "cheat" reality in digital world with oil+water, GO FOR IT! ^_^

[a_dt]

thank you, Halfmoon, (sorry; DemieLune :cool: , are you French?? I had been living in France for quite some years...)
Did you guys see my kitty in the gallery section? It had been improved, I must post the actual current image now. This gray kitty is nothing but oil and watercolor mixed :p.... only the sky is pure water color...
Oh and btw,

You can't do "undo" in-real-life, you can't add layers, delete, save, etc., when painting this kitty, I remembered how much I "undid" and "added layers" on real paint :cool:...
..undid with trying to erase with paper towels and thinners and..
...when it was too dry, just add layers .... yeah yeah it happened.. but I bet it happens with "real artists" and "physical paint" , too...

thank you for your encouragement :)
astrid

[DemieLune]

Cute kitty! ^_^
I left you a message in the other thread ;)

I'm francophone from Québec from many-many generations ;) but my beloved one is Frenchman ;) We live near Montréal ;)


, when painting this kitty, I remembered how much I "undid" and "added layers" on real paint :cool:...
..undid with trying to erase with paper towels and thinners and..
...when it was too dry, just add layers .... yeah yeah it happened.. but I bet it happens with "real artists" and "physical paint" , too...


Yes, of course ^_^ (though when I do try with water color, I jut scrap the cardboard I'm using :rolleyes: ); I did reuse a couple of missed canvas, covering it with gesso and such, but it's a very long process (and with acrylic, it dries so fast, if you miss... well, depending what you're doing, it might be impossible to take it back. One of the many reason why my art teacher convinced me to switch to oil :rolleyes: :P
To better illustrate, here's a painting I did almost 20 years ago (https://demielune.deviantart.com/art/Robert-Plant-32842642) (ok, jee, anything to make me feel... you know... not 25 anymore!? :( ;) ) and I've missed the forehead (too short), but I realized it only when all the hairs where painted. And because it's acrylic, I couldn't fix it :( but I could have, if it would have been CG ;) :P

[WebRage]

I'm somehow surprised why not more people answer here... I seem to be the only one finding it strange that in AR oil and water mix so well as though in reality :) it does not.
do you mean watercolor with acrylic paint?
In AR water color mixes quite well with oil...
Also like I said above, thinners in oil does not make the oil paint "run" as physical paint... so that's why I use watercolors instead of much thinners to blur the oil paint in places.

Ok I just posted the image as an example for instance where I mix watercolor in oil here:
https://forums.artrage.com/showthread.php?53256-mixing-oil-and-watercolor-(kitten)&p=519221#post519221
(the image is not quite finished... )

I was trying to show of an example, where in real painting it can be chaos and cause possible issues or interesting creations. However, that's why most people tend to avoid it. You could get unknown results.

With ArtRage, digital painting, you don't have to worry so much about those factors. You can at least try it, then like it or undo. It emulates real-world features, but won't go crazy destroying your painting canvas with chemical reactions and have to throw it all away just if you wanted to experiment. Half the fun of ArtRage is to discover, learn and experiment with new things.

[hildee]

The great thing about ArtRage is - you can mix anything together on one canvas. People get used to programs like Painter where you have to run around in circles figuring out why the oil brush doesn't work on watercolour paper lol...

[Gms9810]

Well, if you find that blasphemy then you also must condemn erase, layers, and transformations. I mix chalk, watercolor, and wax on the same page simply because this medium allows it.

[D Akey]

All depends on who you're trying to impress. If you want to fit into a group like the Watercolor Society, then you play by their rules. If you break their rules and make a painting that looks better than theirs, you will lose favor.

If you're doing digital, you should already go get an outfit for when you're burned at the stake. There's no appeasing people who have their niche. They know that digital is easier to do, and makes artists out of neophites in short order. They want you to suffer just as they did and take the long way home.

Digital is fairly limitless and unfettered.That after all is the point of making pictures.

I think the 1925 Scopes Monkey Trial makes a good parallel. So what are you, a Spencer Tracy or a Fredric March? Are you going to keep inheriting the wind or are you going to create your own. . . uh. . . your own flap.

I'm thinking in the next version of ArtRage they could create a Blend Mode called "Penance" in which the image, like the artist's soul, gets dulled and a scarlet 'D' for 'digital' gets stamped smack in the middle of the beautiful picture.

Or you can think of it like the Picture of Dorian Gray in reverse, in which the picture looks better than ever but you can no longer look in the mirror.

Are we having fun yet? If you haven't figured yet, I have no regard for the people who look down their noses at digital. Their voices have been an irritation based on nothing but that they noticed they lost their edge because there are newer and better tools available to the artistic world. Piffle says I.

[Gms9810]

I'm not much on rules but I used to think that digital wasn't a "real" medium. However at one point every medium was new and if done right digital takes just as much skill as any other medium. Hey, Mr Akey long time no see.

[D Akey]

Hi gms9810. Good to see you around as well. Was wondering what happened to you, what with your health issues and all. Hope your family including all the animals are doing well too.

[Gms9810]

I died, but I'm ok now. I've been doing a ton of drawing and painting.

[darshaninds]

Darshan industries is manufacturer & exporter of dyestuffs. We manufacture acid, basic and solvent dyestuffs in India.