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View Full Version : Mantis Morning----It's finally Done!!!



Fashmir
05-09-2006, 07:07 PM
It's not quite there to be water color and you have to work at it a bit, but I like the feel of this tool. This is the first time I've really played around with it. I think I'm in love. I didn't have time to finish the mantis today. I'll see if I can polish him off tomorrow. Thanks again for that tip Andy.

NewCube
05-09-2006, 09:07 PM
Wow! The watery effect in the lower left background is particularly good. Could you tell us a little more on how you achieved that?

Thanks and I'm looking forward to the final piece.

bleepnik
05-09-2006, 10:28 PM
Oh wow, that mantis is way cool. Can't wait to see you bring out the detail, Fashmir. The background looks almost like a fractal. It continually amazes me how unexpectedly versatile AR is if you play with tool and paper settings. I'm flying blind in the art world, and for me picking a tool, its settings, a paper type, its grain and other settings is like spinning a roulette wheel; I usually have no idea what the result is going to be. For now that's half the fun of it, really, but I'm looking forward to a time when I know enough to make some more deliberate choices, a time when I'll be able to say ya, I meant to do that. =] As always, thanks for sharing!

- Gita

AndyRage
05-09-2006, 10:50 PM
Oh... ummm... wow!
The plant in the background - it's leaves near the top - they're stunning. I mean it looks real.
And definitely the watery colour effects down the lower left is really convincing! Man, I didn't know ArtRage could do that!

Just give me a moment to pick my jaw up off the floor.

Weeks
05-10-2006, 12:10 AM
Hey Friend... You never stop... !?

Bravo :P

Weeks

ENCHANTER
05-10-2006, 04:36 AM
LOVE IT, WOW!

tony
05-10-2006, 05:05 AM
:) Hi Fashmir, another very interesting and great piece of art work.Love it and look forward to its completion.Regards,Tony :)

sbug51
05-10-2006, 08:02 AM
:shock: wow!

Blanusia
05-10-2006, 08:33 AM
Fashmir, you`re amazing! It looks great! Looking forward to the final painting! :)

Pegasus
05-10-2006, 09:21 AM
The background effect is very very cool, it remember me the “ecolines” my favourite watercolour media.

Tiznaught
05-11-2006, 11:43 AM
beautiful and clever use of the trick! I like how varied the background textures are. Been using it myself alot lately, you aren't the only one in love with it :wink: can't wait till they get the full tool in the next version.

Fashmir
05-15-2006, 07:50 PM
Thanks all of you for the response to this. Sweedie it has been a pleasure to see your "watercolor" pen work in your thread. Here is an update to the mantis image. More later.

Weeks
05-15-2006, 07:54 PM
Hi my friend... :D

You are everywhere... It's good for us all !

Waitin' for more..

Regards

Weeks

maror
05-16-2006, 03:48 AM
just one question: Are you crazy? :P :shock:

Well done on keep posting!

Fashmir
05-16-2006, 04:11 AM
weeks- Am I...everywhere? :) I hope it's good, what ever it is.

maror- Yes. I am a bit mad, but it's a gentle affectation. :P

bearblue1
05-16-2006, 07:03 AM
I am thoroughly enjoying watching this develop. Beautiful job!

AndyRage
05-16-2006, 08:47 AM
Brilliant - I can't wait to see it completed!

Fashmir
05-18-2006, 07:18 PM
Ok. Here's another update. I think this will be the last post on this until I finish it off.

kynu
05-18-2006, 08:02 PM
This will be my favourite from you! Not because of the mantis, but because of the syle. I love it. Keep this up! :)

AndyRage
05-18-2006, 09:42 PM
Hoo boy, I hope you're doing this at a good print resolution.

friendly
05-18-2006, 11:11 PM
your art work is awe inspiring, it would display nicely in any art museum

bearblue1
05-19-2006, 02:36 AM
It just gets better and better. :)

Weeks
05-19-2006, 04:32 AM
Simply brilliant... :wink:

Weeks

UndyingSong
05-19-2006, 06:51 AM
Oh my! How DID you do that? :)

Aged P
05-19-2006, 07:04 AM
Hi David,

The Irfan program, that you recommended, tells me you have used 69062 different colors in this picture so far!

It didn't mention truly great artistic ability and relentless pursuit of perfection, but I haven't found the "Artistic Opinion" menu yet!


Superb!!!

Fashmir
05-19-2006, 10:15 PM
Ok... I know I said the next post would be the finish but I'm too tired to finish tonight, and I'm going away with my wife for the weekend (it's our 21st wedding aniversary- She's amazing) so I won't be able to paint this weekend. So I thought I'd leave you all with an update and a couple of closeups.

kynu- Thanks I'm liking this style a bit myself. I look forward so much to AR watercolors.

Andy- I think it's something like over 2500 px on a side, not huge like I would be doing in Photoshop but hopefully enough to get a print from. What do you have in mind?

friendly- you are very kind, at this point I have not been exhibited publicly (aside from the internet) since the fourth grade. :)

bearblue1- Thanks.

Weeks- Thanks for that.

UndyingSong- I have discovered with this image the wonders of the felt pen with high wetness values. Also for the Mantis I have been removing all roughness from the paper and using chalk set to low pressure. I find that with the pressure control I have with my Wacom Intuos 2 at home I can get some *very* soft blendings of color. Combine that with commitment to getting into it that borders on obsessive-compulsive disorder and you have some idea of how I'm doing this. :D

Phil- I'm glad Irfanview is working out for you. I have used it for years and it never leaves my harddrive. Thanks for the kind words.

Ok so here's the update.

Selby
05-19-2006, 10:57 PM
Wow Fashmir- I love this piece. I've only just started posting on the forum a few days ago, but I have been browsing for a bit before that and I really like your artistic style.

What I particularly like about this piece is how you have made a simple suggestive background, work so well with a really detailed image of the Mantis. I've seen the idea of doing this before but many people 'muff' it and you've made it look like childs play to do-one of the marks of a great artist I think, making hard work look effortless. :)

Hope you have super weekend away with your wife-Cheers for making it to 21 years married, and all the best for many, many, more great years for you both together :!:

thesleepless
05-19-2006, 11:03 PM
this is amazing, i love the background especially

beadie09
05-20-2006, 01:19 AM
This is amazing, I like the flowering branches, gives it a more airy look. that background is terrific! thanks for the detail shots even more impressive!

NewCube
05-20-2006, 04:03 AM
Hang on.. I can see what's going on here. Fashmir's clearly scanning in his progress on a real painting... :lol:

bleepnik
05-20-2006, 05:11 AM
Happy anniversary, David! Congrats to you both, have a maaaaahvelous weekend. Where ya goin?

Is that how those bugs really look? (Is it preying mantis, or praying? They both seem to fit.) Don't think I've ever seen a real one before (meaning not on the Discovery Channel). They're pretty funny-lookin', eh? I have to giggle every time I see this piece, and that close-up of its face really set me off. The bug eyes (heh), the whimsical "expression"...

Oh! And "detail1"? Wow, Fashmir. It looks like you stuck a bug under a USB microscope and uploaded the snapshot.

I, for one, am grateful for your OCD. Oh, right. Borderline. Of course. =]

Waiting for Monday,
Gita

Fashmir
05-20-2006, 07:26 AM
Selby- Thanks. This image is being really fun to work on for me. I enjoy this kind of background and have wanted to try it for a while. It takes a bit of effort to get the washy stuff to look the way I want it to using the felt pen but it is clearly possible. I look forward to more of this. Thanks for wishing us well for the weekend. I'm pretty excited about getting away for a couple of days. Naturally I'll miss all of you. :)

thesleepless- Thanks for that. I want to make another with this flavor.

beadie09- I agree with you. The log didn't seem to fit either the mantis or the background. Plus the cherry branches allowed me to play with complimentary red (Disaster Master inspired me) giving this image a boost of interest. Thanks.

NewCube- Ahhh, yes you've caught me out. But did you realize that I'm painting it all with my mouth from my wheelchair?... Kidding I am whole and in good health.

Gita- Thanks! We will be staying in a bed and breakfast for the weekend at Cannon Beach on the coast of Oregon. The mantis is indeed a strange looking critter. I am using photo reference (I love the pinned images in AR) for this image. I have a few fairly hi-rez images that show the anatomy quite clearly. The comical grin (which I admit I have pushed a little more than is absolute realism) actually comes from the way their faces are structured to be eating machines. What looks like a lower lip is actually a couple of mandibles that act as little hands for positioning it's food. When folded back into a resting position and viewed from face on you get the impression of a smile. Turn the head even a few degrees though and it goes back to being a bit scary looking. I once knew a mantis named Jasper. He lived in my daughters room one season and was released in time to prepare for winter. They are named "Praying" mantis for their folded forearms which is I guess reminescent of an attitued of suplication. I tend to prefer "Preying" as I see it as more acurate. I'm thinking Dragonfly next.

AndyRage
05-20-2006, 08:54 AM
Happy anniversary! Have a great break!

ENCHANTER
05-20-2006, 09:03 AM
O.M.G.

WOW!

youve outdone yourself this time Fashmir!

thats raising the bar, a few miles high!




Happy Aniversary! by the way, hope you have loads more!


:lol:

bleepnik
05-20-2006, 06:29 PM
Thanks for the response, the (English and nature) lesson, and the art. You're just a veritable treasure trove, aintcha? =]

Oh, and yay! Dragonfly!

.g

Weeks
05-21-2006, 08:41 PM
Hello Fashmir :)

Mhhhummmm.... What a nice illustration... Force of details and care.. I'm waiting for more...

Tell me about this "anniversary"...? It was yours ...? Tell me : Birthday...? I don't understand.

Cheers,

Weeks

Fashmir
05-24-2006, 07:40 PM
Andy- Thanks. Obviously back from my break. It was blissful.

Enchanter- Thanks for such an enthusiastic response.

G- I don't know about any treasure trove, but I have been looking beyond the edges of my television screen for a while and picked up a few tidbits. :wink:
I thought you might like the dragonfly idea. <grin>

Sweedie- Do you mean you have never seen one in RL or have you never even seen pictures? Surely you've seen pictures of these insects?!? In either case I am happy to bring them to your attention. I have an enormous respect for these predators. They are lightning fast and very efficient at controlling populations of pest insects. They are even known to take rodents and small birds on occasion depending on their size of course.

Weeks- Hi. Thanks for your comments on this image. When I spoke of my aniversary, I was referring to the 21st aniversary of my marriage to my wife Kim. She and I have been together since I was 17 and she was 15. We got married when I was 20 and she 18. Now here it is 21 years later and we are still in love. I married my dream girl and am having my dream marriage. I'm a lucky guy. :)

Almost forgot... Here's another update. I'm being picky with this one and haven't had a large block of time to work on it like I thought I might so I'm back to little updates. Hope you all don't mind. :)

Erika_PLJ
05-24-2006, 08:59 PM
Whoever knew that something so creepy and crawly could be beautiful?

I love watching your works progress step by step - where'd all of the little blossoms go? Did the mantis eat them?

tony
05-24-2006, 11:32 PM
:) :shock: Gosh Fashmir. that is so real and scary what a amazing picture it has become.What a wonderful artist you are. Regards,Tony :)

bcmillustrator
05-25-2006, 12:10 AM
Great job Fashmir! I've enjoyed seeing the progress.

I've occassionally seen these wonderful creatures where I live. They've ranged in size from less than an inch to about 6-7 inches length. Apparently, it used to be good luck to catch one of these guys. People would leash them to their bed post to keep the bugs away!

bleepnik
05-25-2006, 02:31 AM
Bug.. leash.. *faints*

.g

Selby
05-25-2006, 11:34 AM
Wow-more wow every time I look : )

Fashmir please tell me you work on this 'zoomed in' to the Nth degree I dont want to think about you getting this level of amazing detail in, if the original canvass isnt huge, and your working with tiny bits of it blown up to full screen

I prefer to think like NewCube joked your working on a real canvass.... and.... its the size of my house :!:

cym
05-26-2006, 02:39 AM
Nice detail, groovy bug! I've encountered a couple of these in my life time. They are so fascinating. Dragonfly would be cool to see, and then will you do my favorite...a Cecropia moth? :wink:
Glad you had a nice aniversary get away. Its refreshing to hear of "happily ever afters".

ENCHANTER
05-26-2006, 09:42 AM
my jaw is still on the ground from the last update! :(

'can...it....go 'any'... further!'
:lol:

nixon
05-26-2006, 09:53 AM
amazingly tight work. How many hours have you put into the project now? I envy the control you have with the tools of ArtRage, I'd love to be able to render like you!

Russell
05-27-2006, 01:26 AM
that is very very very good :lol:

maror
05-27-2006, 02:00 AM
:shock: your stuff is killing me :lol:

Fashmir
05-29-2006, 07:32 PM
Erika_PLJ-
Whoever knew that something so creepy and crawly could be beautiful? I actually get this reaction alot as people get to know me, I... Oh! You mean the mantis?!? Oh well thanks. The blossoms were just turned off in my last export. Oversight. :oops:

Tony- You are really too kind.

Sweedie- If they wish they can deliver a bit of a nip nothing too painful. I can't speak about the really large ones as the afore mentioned "Jasper" was only about 14 cm long, from head to tail. The interesting thing for me was eye contact. He would actually make eye contact. He was quite a jumper too. I would hold him on my upturned palm and look at him eye to eye and like lightning he would be on my nose. He wasn't attacking, he just seemed curious. They have no sting and aren't venomous.

bcmillustrator- Thanks. I never heard about the leashing but I had heard about the good luck.

G- Dobermans and Pit Bulls are way more dangerous. :)

Selby- My canvas (which is digital) is 2560 x 2048. Not as large as I usually paint with in Photoshop but is reasonable for ArtRage. The close ups I posted earlier are actual size but cropped. Besides which I have secret powers. :wink:

cym- Thanks. I'll have to research the Cecropia moth. I have a few non-digital canvases I must fill in the next few weeks so my AR persuits will likely slow a bit. I did have a very nice aniversary get-away and am very much enjoying my "happily ever after."

ENCHANTER- Don't go hurting your jaw now it's just a bug on a branch. In truth though it can go alot further. Surely you can see the unfinished bits?

nixon- Thanks. I really should start loging my hours on these extended projects. At this point I don't have a clue how much time it has taken me. Sorry.

Russell- Thank you very very very much. :lol:

maror- I only wish you good health and long life.

Here is another update. I worked on the abdomen and left front leg. I still have a little more on each of those as well as the wings, branches, blossoms, and leaves. It could be a while yet. I'm not forcing this one.

Aged P
05-29-2006, 08:24 PM
Hi David,

I really do not believe that anybody else could have painted this so well.

My definition of "anyone else" starts at guys with burnt sticks doodling on cave walls and goes through to whatever time and date appears on this posting!

Simply the best!

Hypnomedi
05-29-2006, 08:26 PM
I can't find any words that express my feelings, only WOW
That is painting.
I can paint a landscape and Van Gogh as beginner :lol: but this is the real thing.
When I go to the museum ,I don't look at abstract and related.
Everyone can paint like that (my opinion)
I only look at the real paintings , artists that can paint in such detail
that the person ,animal or whatever is almost coming to life.

That is what I see in this painting, the details are just amazing.
I hope in the future that I can paint 5% of the capability you showing here!

This is just the TOP !

Do you also have a website with your work?
And also paint on real canvas?

Johan

Adam
05-29-2006, 09:09 PM
I think it's interesting that everybody has a different part that they love the most. For me it's the eyes...

AndyRage
05-29-2006, 11:35 PM
Well, I'm completely out of superlatives.
So I'll make some up... That's absolutely splungeworthy! Totaly wlonkful.

Once again, I'm just astounded beyond words.

bleepnik
05-30-2006, 10:37 PM
More dangerous, maybe, but would Jasper have responded to doggy treats, hmmmmmm? And oh god.. on. your. nose?!!! *faints*

Love the detail in this. Take your time finishing it, the anticipation is delightful anguish.

.g

Disaster Master
05-31-2006, 02:31 AM
I can't find any words that express my feelings, only WOW
That is painting.
I can paint a landscape and Van Gogh as beginner :lol: but this is the real thing.
When I go to the museum ,I don't look at abstract and related.
Everyone can paint like that (my opinion)
I only look at the real paintings , artists that can paint in such detail
that the person ,animal or whatever is almost coming to life.

That is what I see in this painting, the details are just amazing.
I hope in the future that I can paint 5% of the capability you showing here!

This is just the TOP !

Do you also have a website with your work?
And also paint on real canvas?

Johan

yes, this is the real real real – for triple- work.
Fashmir,
I do not know if this is your real photo , but by all the means of truth, you are very professional and what you draw is always very special . and you cannot be just an ordinary digitally painter like the others here or there.

Fashmir , you are very exceptional case.


Disaster Master.

cym
05-31-2006, 09:56 PM
I have to agree with Adam, I love those eyes. And to add to Andy's superlatives
Faninsectalacious!

florida girl
06-01-2006, 05:57 AM
Fashmir,
I love the watercolors & what you have done here.
It looks much like the mantis I saw in the garden,
but yours looks so much prettier!
Thanks for all your Inspirational Ideas.

maror
06-01-2006, 06:14 AM
whoaa fashmir
good ... better ... the best!
i think your work shows very pretty why everybody should use refrees! The picture just look real and reliably!

Wonderful piece!

Greez

PS: Thanks for the good wishes above and same to you!

ka
06-01-2006, 10:23 PM
hi
yesterday you wrote to me ;you said "welcome"!!thanks really .so i want to look at your work.i have seen 2 versions ,you know what: i love the first version with the green and opaque;because even if the mantis is unfinished the difference beetwen the little leafs very elaborate and this "mass" that is very strange beautiful.really.ka

florida girl
06-02-2006, 05:21 AM
Fashmir,
All of it's true! Your work is really museum worthy.
It's all there... not just methodical, or mathematical, but inspired by nature, hopes, dreams, and sometimes whimsy.
But especially by heart. You have the heArt of a painter!
We are looking forward to your next creation.
Many Congratulations to you & your wife on your celebration of life & your 21st anniversary! Enjoy!
Artfully Yours,
KJT

Marvolo
06-02-2006, 07:35 PM
Hey uncle this is way cool i love the colors they are so pretty and really and the eyes look perfect :D

Aged P
06-05-2006, 07:39 AM
Wow David, this Forum moves so fast now!

I came here for a copy of the Mantis and it was already two pages ago.

I'm just moving onto an upswing again.

Hope you're well.

the_arts
06-05-2006, 12:42 PM
wow excellent coloring. :shock:

empty_chilli
06-05-2006, 02:09 PM
As everyone else has said, a really super piece of art!

I was really enjoying the wooden log in the very first version of this pic though, I was a little sorry to see it change.

Fashmir
06-06-2006, 09:03 PM
I have to get up in 4.5 hours and work another day, but I want to post another update. Your responses have been amazing. I am humbled by the way many of you speak about my art. In all truth I don't know what to say but thank you. I will do my best to continue to create pleasing images and to share what I've learned. It takes all of you viewing and appreciating what I have worked to create for it to resonate and become something more than a collection of pixels. Thanks for viewing.

Selby
06-06-2006, 11:48 PM
Fashmir- you never cease to amaze me-I thought the mantis was tops way back at the first post and you keep finding ways i cant even imagine till you show us to make it better and better :) I love the leaves and blossoms so cheery on this rainy puddleduck day im having.

Selby

drzeller
06-07-2006, 01:04 AM
Awesome, Fashmir.

D.

Art2
06-07-2006, 02:23 AM
Stunning work Fashmir... I very much like the background and the amazing eyes. Great textures too.

maror
06-07-2006, 03:06 AM
you killing me again...excellent work! :o :o :shock:

ENCHANTER
06-07-2006, 08:16 AM
awsome..and then some!!

:lol:

DaveRage
06-19-2006, 11:18 AM
I'm gobsmacked. That's amazing!

Dickie
06-19-2006, 01:10 PM
Fashmir: You really make this software shine. I'm in awe of your painting skills. The subltle details on the mantis are just wonderful. You got all his little spikes in there! Those flowers feel so tender and real also. Just a fine, fine painting... :D

Mantises are my favorite insect. (I sound like Napolean Dynamite... :lol: )
I've had a few as pets over the years and they are a very friendly insect. Unless you are it's prey. Then it gets pretty disgusting. I used to feed a particular mantis I had by hand. He ate crickets, with much gusto too!

My daughter caught a baby one today. He was as long as my pinky nail. So Cute!! I told her to put him back in the garden so we wouldn't smoosh him.

Dickie

sbug51
06-19-2006, 07:31 PM
thats a sbug!

sbug=super bug ;)

(note: works to be used as a stupid bug as well :D heheheh but no yours for sure :))

great work fashmir! a fav!

cym
06-21-2006, 07:00 AM
Wonnerful wonnerful wonnerful! And congrats on making the forum heading with this...well deserved.

ka
06-24-2006, 08:03 AM
DEAR FASHMIR YOU ARE BENEVOLENT: AND FIND TIME TO LOOK AT the WORK OF the OTHERS… IN French IN MORE!! THANK YOU " BEAUCOUP".I OFTEN TURN OVER SEE THIS RELIGIOUS MANTE the BACKGROUND IS SO MUCH DELICATE BUT HOW DO YOU DO MADE THAT??? GOOD NIGHT KA

bleepnik
07-03-2006, 03:19 PM
Hehe, I saw that on a recent visit to CGSociety's web site, and immediately I thought of Fashmir. =)

- Gita

Fashmir
07-19-2006, 07:26 PM
Selby- Thanks for your kind words. I am enjoying the foliage too.

drzeller-Thanks.

Art2-Thank you.

maror- You are too talented to die from exposure to my art. :wink:

ENCHANTER-Thanks for that.

DaveRage- gobsmacked! What a great word. Thanks.

Dickie- Thanks for your enthusiasm. Nice to meet another person who has spent time in the company of these creatures. Good on ya for not smooshing. :)

sbug51- Thanks. Your enthusiasm and cheer is always welcome.

cym- Heh. Thanks. It's kind of funny when it got used for the home page heading and the ads currently running on CGSociety it wasn't even finished yet. :lol: Kind of made me feel good the guys liked it that much.

ka- Votre présence sur le forum est un plaisir pour moi. Votre art est si plein avec le coeur. Je sais que votre enfant occupe beaucoup de votre temps mais il vous marque un des êtres les plus étonnants sur le monde. Une mère. Ceci est ajouté à mon respect pour vous.

Sweedie- Thanks for putting up that link. Pretty amazing what one guy and accomplish. Yeah the mantis is a fascinating creature.

G- :D


So it's finally done. Here is the final version. Enjoy.

Aged P
07-19-2006, 07:46 PM
David,
This will produce a huge round of applause from every corner of the ArtRage planet!
You deserve it! Absolutely Superb!

jacktar51
07-19-2006, 08:16 PM
Fashmir.......Phil is not the only one applauding.....Phenominal.....Jack,

jacktar51
07-19-2006, 08:17 PM
Fashmir.......Phil is not the only one applauding.....Phenominal.....Jack,

tony
07-19-2006, 09:01 PM
:) :shock: Wow Fashmir, they have said it all I know, I simply marvel at the artistic talent you have to produce each time a gem of a painting. Gosh Fashmir you are one hell of a great artist and its a delight each time to look at your work's of art.Regards,Tony :)

cym
07-19-2006, 09:27 PM
I saw one of these little green guys just yesterday. They are so fascinating. He (she?) was very bright green, appeared to be studying me and I thought of this painting of yours.

ivan k
07-19-2006, 10:18 PM
i´m amazed whith all the pictures you´ve posted in this foum, but yor mantis is...spectacular, Fashmir! i´m attracted to mantis, they´re so beautiful and mysterious. Few months ago i found some extrange mantis i´ve never seen before. That mantis had a prehistoric look, so small and bizarre. I saw you had a fanyastic picture of dinosaurs. If you are interested in mantis and paleontology i cand send you some photos.
regards

AndyRage
07-19-2006, 11:19 PM
It's a phenomenal work, Fashmir. The detail and style is simply amazing.

speggie
07-20-2006, 05:15 AM
Fashmir just stumbled across the mantis ........not literally,,,but marvellous all the same top notch work fella ............

ENCHANTER
07-20-2006, 05:18 AM
aLL OF THE ABOVE COMEMNTS AND MORE!!
:D

drzeller
07-20-2006, 05:37 AM
I will join the sound of the broken record... great work, Fashmir.

D.

hype
07-20-2006, 10:19 AM
post this everywhere online that you possibly can!

Andy and the gang should want to print boxes for ArtRage specifically so this pic could be on the front!

amazing!

Collin
07-20-2006, 11:02 AM
Absolutely awesome!

bleepnik
07-24-2006, 03:14 PM
Fashmir, this little critter is very cool, but I am happy if it stays digital, thanks very much. =)

hype, how cool.. I would *love* a boxed version of ArtRage.

.g

ENCHANTER
07-25-2006, 09:24 AM
oh yes a boxed version....and we could show people...'this is something done in artrage' :D