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jacktar51
04-04-2015, 11:39 PM
This painting went all wrong, probably because I did part of it in J-peg then switched to PNG, resizing several times, and trying to paint a night scene, doing a foreground using stickers, and using three layers merged, Ah well we live and learn, I am posting this so you can see the way NOT to do it, I'm not going over all the detailing again, which I would have to do to put it right, that's why I'm posting as it is, an un finished work in progress, hope you get the impression I was attempting to put over to the viewer...Thanks for looking, .....Jack.

Delofasht
04-05-2015, 04:06 AM
I could care less that much of this seemed a failure the mood speaks loudly enough! Coukd you try duplicating the layer and running the layer through a blur then erase out to the details you want to take the edges off of some things you don't like and recover details where you do like them?

If you really aren't feeling working anymore on it though I can really understand that, I get that way sometimes with my paintings (especially when I was working in photoshop).

Either way, looks good on my iPhone, so you are in good shape!

- Delo

D Akey
04-05-2015, 09:13 AM
It works for me just fine as it is, on my 27 inch screen. Personally I don't think everything has to be sharp and illustrative. I can see how that would be desirable if one is illustrating something that you want the viewer to be able to wander around and get excited by the details of the bootlegger's rig. But there's a reality to it that detail would spoil too. When I'm out on a dark night, smuggling casks of demon rum, why there's not a whole lot of detail in the reality of it, through my eyes anyway. And if you're watching a movie, there's often a whole lot of info that's implied and not shown. So it's actually more true to life for me. And I really like what you put in -- the band in the center where everything's happening. Dark black space is not the worst thing that could happen in a dark scene when you have enough info there to light the imagination.

:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

Delofasht
04-05-2015, 09:45 AM
It works for me just fine as it is, on my 27 inch screen. Personally I don't think everything has to be sharp and illustrative. I can see how that would be desirable if one is illustrating something that you want the viewer to be able to wander around and get excited by the details of the bootlegger's rig. But there's a reality to it that detail would spoil too. When I'm out on a dark night, smuggling casks of demon rum, why there's not a whole lot of detail in the reality of it, through my eyes anyway. And if you're watching a movie, there's often a whole lot of info that's implied and not shown. So it's actually more true to life for me. And I really like what you put in -- the band in the center where everything's happening. Dark black space is not the worst thing that could happen in a dark scene when you have enough info there to light the imagination.


Those are pretty much my thoughts on detail really, reality isn't in sharp focus (especially for me, having to wear glasses and all now days. . . going blind slowly).

jacktar51
04-06-2015, 02:22 AM
Delofasht, Thanks for the encouragement, after reading yours and Mr D Akey's replies, I decided to have a go at it again, I blurred it quite a bit, darkened it quite a lot, changed a few things that were dreadful, ( one of those things was the white horses, talk about being inconspicuous on a dark night) anyway changed the heads on two of the horses( not very good at horses) I think the lighting might be about right now, thinking of putting a little more detailing in though, nice to have your feedback because it gives me ideas to try out, and if you don't try out new stuff you never learn anything, and I'm all for it, you made me smile about you wearing glasses and going blind ( not that going blind is funny, it isn't) it made me think that when I was told that I needed glasses the first time, not really going blind I hope,. Thank you for your comments ....Jack.

jacktar51
04-06-2015, 02:33 AM
Mr D Akey, Hello D, thanks for coming in on this thread, I have read your comments and have taken on board what you say, I am posting second version to see if this is improving or not, quite severe blurring has got rid of many of my mistakes, makes me want to put some detailing back in though , I would like to know your thoughts on this before I go back in...Jack.

jacktar51
04-06-2015, 02:36 AM
Here's the amended version, to see what you think.

gxhpainter2
04-06-2015, 04:21 AM
jacktar, I like both versions , although in the second most recent version you did a marvelous job on the moonlight on the horses ears and head which added just the right amount of detail.. excellent work.:):):cool::cool:

Delofasht
04-06-2015, 05:13 AM
Looking good, I think you could just keep going and going with this painting. There is a lot of potential and learning to be gained from it, just try to focus on what you feel needs work. On my current landscape, I have put a new layer up over my painting to keep notes and have circled all the areas I want to work on in red with a letter in the circles to designate what I'm going to do in that area. I have no specific letters that I use often but for this set of notes I'm either D for desaturating some of the colors in an area, or H highlighting with sunlight on some areas with a few actual color scribbles here and there to designate the kind of areas I think might also do for some additional lighting too.


Here is an example of the approach I use to make notes on what I want to work on and where. Landscape WIP (http://forums.artrage.com/showthread.php?49061-Landscape&p=492628#post492628)

- Delo

BushcraftOnFire
04-06-2015, 05:25 AM
Jack..

As I read through this post I noted a few things... First off.. that you consider the original a failure... It is captivating and mysterious.. The darkness with the shadowing just draws you into the painting.

Then I got to the bottom.. and saw the updated version. I do like the extra detail on the horses.. but honestly *I* prefer the original. There was something about the softness in the painting that pleased me. The detailed difference in the shadow vs the lighting seemed to lose some of that in my opinion. With the brightness in the second piece I also lost a lot of the detail that I could see in the first (even if it was imaginary) in the horses.

I'm not saying both aren't fantastic pieces of art.. They are.. I just preferred the first one. In either case.. very nice work!

David

jacktar51
04-07-2015, 05:06 AM
BushcraftOnFire ..
David thank you for your comments, I have taken them on board and with the other comments, have decided it may be worthwhile to progress this picture to see where it goes, I am attempting to put everyone's ideas into practice and have some progress to show on the post below, any comments or suggestions by anyone will be acted upon if they are plausible and positive, I have made quite a few changes in the latest post so that if your interested you can compare with the first and second, (this one is the third) .....Jack.

scribbledsoul
04-07-2015, 07:15 PM
Love the dramatic lighting and the mood here. Nicely done!

Delofasht
04-07-2015, 07:23 PM
Big fan of how everything reads now. I might look at the piece now and start asking questions about what kind of contraband, where from, where are they headed, why they are headed there, and so on. The reason I say this is because it might give some ideas on other things that could be in the composition that aren't there right now (for next painting even), to learn from if nothing else. I imagine they just left a city, maybe in the hills or mountains, and are headed to their village with important medicines that were just too expensive to get with their meager trade goods worth of stuff (or having not been able to sell in the market), it's night and a bit humid and a dense fog has rolled in giving them some cover for their escape but not without a cost of vision to navigate by. . .

Thinking like that might give you some more ideas for this painting or a future one, maybe you could paint each of the characters in this band with their own unique character.

Like I said though, I really like how everything reads right now feels very well put together and you did pretty well on the horses, I'm terrible at them, would have to go find a reference for sure.

Good luck, keep up the great work!

- Delo

jacktar51
04-07-2015, 10:54 PM
Big fan of how everything reads now. I might look at the piece now and start asking questions about what kind of contraband, where from, where are they headed, why they are headed there, and so on. The reason I say this is because it might give some ideas on other things that could be in the composition that aren't there right now (for next painting even), to learn from if nothing else. I imagine they just left a city, maybe in the hills or mountains, and are headed to their village with important medicines that were just too expensive to get with their meager trade goods worth of stuff (or having not been able to sell in the market), it's night and a bit humid and a dense fog has rolled in giving them some cover for their escape but not without a cost of vision to navigate by. . .

Thinking like that might give you some more ideas for this painting or a future one, maybe you could paint each of the characters in this band with their own unique character.

Like I said though, I really like how everything reads right now feels very well put together and you did pretty well on the horses, I'm terrible at them, would have to go find a reference for sure.

Good luck, keep up the great work!

- Delo

Hello Delo
Thanks for those ideas, I have changed the scene slightly, its now one of a rest period for the horses I've put the foreground guy leaning on the back of a cart, and a sack of horse feed on the ground in front of him, I'd already put the bridles on the horses so now he's got to take them off again for feeding, Ahar! I did this because I had the horses looking as relaxing, not driving, so to speak, I have put the barrels in nets , I believe that was the way they did it in the old days, safer and more secure in transit than ropes, anyway Delo, the modified picture is coming along, I might add a few more things as it progresses, thanks for the input , it does make a difference to the way I'm thinking, quite pleased that I didn't just bin it.....Jack.

scribbledsoul
04-08-2015, 09:32 AM
Oh I love the added color...

Delofasht
04-08-2015, 09:44 AM
I really like the guy resting against the cart now, so many great details and fun going on now, I'm glad my advice is helping you some and hope you are enjoying learning from it all. I'm following along with your work and am actually learning a lot from seeing how you fix things actually and little things that I might not have thought of being added updated or made to flow better are teaching me about things in my paintings that might look lacking in some respects. We all learn from each other :) I'm really glad you didn't 'just bin it" too!

Caesar
04-08-2015, 08:39 PM
Marvellous painting in the moonlight! Dramatic improvement on the second one. Did You just multiply?

D Akey
04-09-2015, 08:38 AM
Super Jack! Sometimes I resort to taking a painting into Photoshop, duplicating the layer, blurring the layer on top to the degree most blurry that I would want, and working with the opacity to find that happy medium. Sometimes I find that it works in certain areas of the painting, while in other areas it's too blurry. So what I do for those areas that I want to go back to the original sharpness, I make a layer mask and the race gently back in those areas to bring some detail back into the picture in strategic places.

Needless to say, one could really mess about with depth of field kinds of effects, and massage that to a fair-thee-well are doing just a little bit. As one gets in and starts messing around with it, all kinds of possibilities appear, and you call 'em as you see 'em.

I think I would err on the side of a combination between the two versions. In some areas I like the blurring a lot, and in some areas I want to see a little bit more detail, or sharpness. But overall both work really well.

I know you were trying to solve a situation in which you lost some of your good work through a technical glitch, but that's often what prompts us to stretch and grow and try out some new stuff.

In any case, great job, ambitious project, and it's immensely satisfying To see this level of interest where it's likely to be the way something like that should look.

Go man go!

:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::):):):):):cool::coo l::cool::cool::cool:

jacktar51
04-09-2015, 09:46 AM
Delo,
Hello mate, I just couldn't leave it as it was, I seemed to have the base for a good painting if I just keep at it , in the latest update I have flipped the picture horizontally, just to kind of get another kind of angle on the layout, I have changed a few things, re-worked the leaves on the foreground tree, added a couple of things, at the moment the whole thing is a little bit light, this is on purpose so I can get stuff that will be almost in blackness when I am finally ready to finish, I think its gradually getting there though, getting it a bit more detailed again now, thanks for your interest on this process Delo....Jack.

jacktar51
04-09-2015, 09:58 AM
Caesar.
Hello mate, no multiply, I have to do things the hard way, I use layers though, I NEVER re-work on the original or previous, ALWAYS duplicate the layer first then work on the duplicate, that way I can always revert if I don't manage to do what I wanted, always a good plan I think... Yes I am quite pleased with the way things are going, its a long time since I did a serious bit of artwork, Its only Delo and Mr D Akey that got me interested in keeping this one going, the original was more of a sketch paint and so nearly got binned, thanks for your interest here mate, appreciate your reply....Jack.

jacktar51
04-09-2015, 10:00 AM
Scribbledsoul,
I should have seen your reply, didn't miss you on purpose, sorry about that, I appreciate your reply.....Jack.

jacktar51
04-09-2015, 10:14 AM
Mr D Akey,
Hello D, I don't think I have done so much on a picture since our famous " Admiral Benbow" the one where all the regular members each joined in with their own little bits in the picture, and I also remember the one with the submarines, can't recall what we called that one but I remember it was great fun at the time, we certainly had a good crew of members at that time, I remember Fashmir joined in and you , with your little pictures ( heads inside submarines) still makes me smile when I think back on those days, those were the days my friend, we thought they'd never end.....Thanks for your reply D, you know I always look forward to our little c hats.....Jack.

D Akey
04-09-2015, 10:22 AM
So glad you're back Jack-o! :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

The fun is definitely not over. It's just that "The names have been changed to protect the innocent", a line stolen from the old Dragnet show. . .

justjean
04-09-2015, 10:47 AM
Jack they are both great the mystery of the night and the almost breaking of dawn in the second