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Sethren
08-21-2011, 01:21 PM
I am trying to get a decent substitute for a Copic-like marker preset but these markers are very difficult to try and simulate. At the moment i have the setting for the marker tool as follows using the sketch paper canvas preset.

Pressure: 50%
Softness: 0%
Wetness: 50%
Art Pen: Yes

What say the rest of you?

Sethren
08-21-2011, 01:35 PM
Here is a fine example of what Copic looks like on a sketch pad surface.

http://adamhughes.deviantart.com/#/d3arab9

What i am running into is this. I need to marker not only to be wet and blend wet but have a slightly soft textured edge squared shape and the wetness needs to be fine random dotty, where as the more the maker is layered onto itself the more the dottiness is filled in.

Someonesane
08-21-2011, 02:56 PM
I'm no Adam Hughes, but I attempted to mimic the style of the image you linked to, by doing a study of the image using a technique I like for the Oil Brush. I think it comes pretty close to the style, but it doesn't really match the feel of a Copic. I explain a bit about how I use the tools in this thread (http://www2.ambientdesign.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32448), if you think it's worth your time.

59223

Sethren
08-21-2011, 03:29 PM
So you used an oil brush tool preset, interesting.

Not bad results. I was hoping to stick with the marker but if there is a way to do something similar using the oil tool, then why not. I think it may be a matter of the canvas as well. A certain canvas texture maybe the driving force here.

Hopefully someday the marker tools will have more copic-like results as well. In the meantime i am getting closer though.

screenpainter
08-21-2011, 05:16 PM
here's my felt pen preset I love to use. a lot. also with watercolor.

Sethren
08-21-2011, 05:22 PM
Thank you kindly. I will see what i can do with this as well.

Sethren
08-21-2011, 05:57 PM
I'm no Adam Hughes, but I attempted to mimic the style of the image you linked to, by doing a study of the image using a technique I like for the Oil Brush. I think it comes pretty close to the style, but it doesn't really match the feel of a Copic. I explain a bit about how I use the tools in this thread (http://www2.ambientdesign.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32448), if you think it's worth your time.

59223

How long did it take for you to paint this? You may be no Adam Hughes but the likeness is there for sure.

Someonesane
08-22-2011, 05:26 AM
Total time was about an hour, give or take a few minutes. I had started to record it, using the script feature, but since I hadn't intended to really work on it as far as I did, I had stopped the recording when I got a phone call. When I sat back down, I decided to keep going, but didn't think to record the rest (which is really nothing more then my deciding to cover the unfinished eye with more hair then original work had, and the stars). I didn't sketch the image by eye, either. Since I felt it was more of a study on how to mimic the painting aspect of it, I just loosely traced the original sketch.

Here's a link to a video of what I did record of the process:

http://youtu.be/D_LWqW3DSqg

Teriodin
12-29-2011, 04:51 AM
I have recently been learning to cartoon in a Manga/Copic style and have also become quite frustrated trying to emulate the look and feel of Copic in ArtRage.

Apparently they are an alcohol based marker that take up to seven strokes to achieve full colour density in real life and are designed to be blended.

Copic themselves have a free trial edition of SketchBook which includes 70 or so colours and is supposed to work just like the real thing. I'm going to give it a try (URL in case anyone wants to look for purposes maybe of implementing it into AR? *grins* http://copic.jp/sketchbook-ce.html )

I'll find a way of doing this in ArtRage sometime over the next few months, but it would be nice to be able to follow along with the many, many Copic tutorials that exist out there using the 'digital' version of their markers.

Pretty please? Next AR update? :D

Sethren
12-29-2011, 01:20 PM
I have recently been learning to cartoon in a Manga/Copic style and have also become quite frustrated trying to emulate the look and feel of Copic in ArtRage.

Apparently they are an alcohol based marker that take up to seven strokes to achieve full colour density in real life and are designed to be blended.

Copic themselves have a free trial edition of SketchBook which includes 70 or so colours and is supposed to work just like the real thing. I'm going to give it a try (URL in case anyone wants to look for purposes maybe of implementing it into AR? *grins* http://copic.jp/sketchbook-ce.html )

I'll find a way of doing this in ArtRage sometime over the next few months, but it would be nice to be able to follow along with the many, many Copic tutorials that exist out there using the 'digital' version of their markers.

Pretty please? Next AR update? :D

I tried tha Copic Edition of Sketchbook but without a way to have the marker strokes show up on a textured surface like sketch paper, there is no way to get good results. They have the colors covered and the wetness with the layered strokes but that is all. It has been attempted in Photoshop to some degree and no good attempt in Painter that i am aware of. Indeed, Art Rage does need to dedicated Copic-like marker emulation. It lacks in certain areas of which i can not place at the moment. Rather technical.

Teriodin
12-30-2011, 10:30 AM
I also have now tried the Copic edition of Sketchbook. Quite a poor implementation in some ways as they do not blend like the real Copic markers.

The whole point of Copics is the layering and blending :D

Best I have managed so far (ArtRage) is to use the Copic colourset (on this forum somewhere as a .col file) with the Hard Felt Tip preset and blend it with the Insta-Blur Knife tool, set around 20-30% width.

It's close to the finished look of copics, and the colourless blender in that colour set isn't perfect, but if you're careful it can work. :)

Someonesane
12-30-2011, 05:03 PM
I've been doing some more experimenting with this, as well. I've been watching videos of people working with the markers, and looking at finished images, trying to get a better understanding of how different people work with them. I'm partial to Adam Hughes style, myself. In the end, I'd have to agree with Teriodin, about the Felt Pen being the closet tool to match how the Markers work. I've attached an experiment of mine, where I took a pencil Sketch of Adam Hughes, and colored over it (purely for experimental purposes, since my own sketches wouldn't come close to meeting his, and I wanted to focus fully on the coloring aspect). By using the Felt Pen set to use the settings seen below, they can be used to overlay colors, and smear/blend into each other. The Crayon tool, Softness set high, on a 0% smooth canvas works well for really soft blends, where needed. I used the Ink Pen for the dark outline. For added effect, I used the Paint Roller (pure white color), at high pressure, on a gritty textured canvas, to create the grainy texture effect you see on the image. The layer was set to use an overlay blend, to merge into the colors.

Here's the settings I used for the Felt Pen:

62797

And here the example shots (they can be enlarged some by clicking on them):

62798

62799

Sethren
12-30-2011, 05:33 PM
It's nice but too many tools to use for just what should be done with one. I know it is hard to emulate these markers, however perhaps Ambient Design has something up there sleeves.

Someonesane
12-30-2011, 08:04 PM
I don't think I used any more tools then he (Adam Hughes) would have using traditional methods. I didn't feel like I had to work to make it happen, anyway...

I believe it's easy to get used to thinking of tools as single, do it all, objects, in digital art. The Felt Pen. The Oil Brush. The Chalk tool. Users get caught up believing that the single tool, with all of its setting options, should provide everything needed for a particular style. In traditional media, artists rarely make use of only a single tool. I'm sure that isn't news to anyone here, though I feel it's easy to forget, when everything is so readily available in digital programs. With traditional oil paints, a number of different brush types, and sizes, palette knives, sponges, rags, paints, thinners, etc... are all used during the process of making a single painting. With Chalk/Conté, fingers and rags are used to smear/rub in the color, while kneaded erasers are used to lift color away, and white erasers can be used to define sharp edges. The sides of certain pieces of chalk are chosen specifically to gain a better edge for a single line. From what I've see done with the Copics, by Adam Hughes, it's just the same.

He, Mr. Hughes, uses a range of similar colors, which are used for color variance, to blend. He lays down a base color, goes over it with a color that's a step darker in value, so on, and so forth, until he's happy with the result. For every hue added to the image, there is a range of the same hues, at different values, needed for adding depth to them. He'll then use an inking pen to add his outlines, and in some cases, white pencils to do additional highlighting. Here's a video of his (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChuZZR_fqQ4) on youtube, where he explains some of his techniques in drawing an eye. It's a monochromatic image, yet he still uses a few different copic pens to pull it off.

For me, switching to the Crayon tool for blending is just the same as switching marker values. I used the Ink Pen for the outline, because I'm accustomed to using it for line work, and have a preset already created for it. I could've just changed the Felt Pen settings around to work similarly, but why bother when the other tool was set for the job? The Roller part takes a single stroke of the tool, at the very end of the image. It might not even be necessary, depending on personal tastes.

This isn't to say the AR team has no reason to try and improve upon the tool sets, or perhaps create a specific one for the subject matter. It's just my thought process on the differences between digital and traditional.