View Full Version : Anathema and excommunication

07-20-2011, 09:26 PM
I merged two global political episodes in this satyrical vignette. I hope You're aware of both. Threatening and arrogance policies mixed to angry postures may become counter-productive in certain cases, let it being possibly perceived as a vile behaviour, whoever he may be or think to represent to feel so bully ... ;):p

07-20-2011, 09:38 PM
Hail O Caesar. O mighty one. Who's bullying who???:confused::confused:

07-20-2011, 09:43 PM
Great one Cesare.

07-20-2011, 09:53 PM
Dear ATPlus the old, I understand You're quite busy with Murdoch affair at home, but many events are occurring in the rest of the world outside your island too ... :D Just concerning Chinese disappointment to discover that they cannot decide who You may invite to visit You at home and they cannot make Catholic bishops by themselves (just as Henri the XVIII tried to do for similar full control political reasons and some personal hobby, or hubby, he passionately used to play). :p Thank You!

Thank You, dear Sandra. With Artrage pencil and crayon was really a fast and easy task after its conception!

07-20-2011, 11:04 PM
Hail O Caesar O mighty one the............Question is

.............. Who is bullying who ???

......Don't worry about Murdoch you pay your money you get your Justice

07-20-2011, 11:21 PM
Fantastic !!!

07-20-2011, 11:38 PM
I explained in my answer who got mad (also in the vigntette), dear ATPlus the Old, and, for details, You may find everything somewhere in last days newspaper looking at international facts; I wouldn't play the journalist myself here ... also because it looks like it's not a healthy job in UK.:D
I don't care about Murdoch at all since we succeeded to keep him aside with his Sky pay TV as a broadcaster and his nose is out of our political business, since the one of Berlusconi is far bigger in there ...;)

Thank You, dear Semd74! At least in US You got some more news I guess about the two "diplomatic" issues this vignette deals with! :p

07-20-2011, 11:43 PM
Caesar, a great sketch of an equally posturing and threatening group of people :D

07-20-2011, 11:45 PM
hahaahahah sei grandissimo! :D

07-21-2011, 02:14 AM

My goodness how perfect! Love the cartoon edge of this...


07-21-2011, 06:01 AM
Hail O Caesar mighty one you are either politcian, good journalist

or a future Pope not sure which as your vigntette show's

the little boy jumping in temper because the big boys would not

let him play in thier playground :eek:

J Witt
07-21-2011, 06:27 AM
Love it...I think Obama is on the wrong side of the drawing though ;) Just kidding of course. Don't mean to stir the pot.

07-21-2011, 07:06 AM
Dear Jean, thank You for the compliments. Actually I can hard see the Pope and the Dalai Lama as threatening people, since the XIX century at least. Many national political leaders and nationalisms are still so instead and also religious fanatism is very dangerous, but certainly no more among Catholics or Orthodoxes or Buddhists.

Come caricature non mi metto certo a competere con la tua maestria e perfezione realizzativa, caro Stefano, ma mi hai fatto venire voglia di fare una vignetta politica e catturare alcune fisionomie famose velocemente a matita ... Grazie amico!

Thank You, dear Gigicharm! Unfortunately comical and ridiculous situations become dramatically grotesque in the real world ...:(

Dear 80+, You're really interested then! So I'll tell You what.
First, some days ago the US President received and met the Dalai Lama the supreme Buddhist authority of Tibet which was ruled as a theocracy in the past and several decades ago annexed by Communist China. China threatened retaliations and fiercely protested.
The second recent issue. China is willing to put under their government (rather dictatorship) exclusive authority the Chinese Catholics and they declared outlaws the many Catholic Christians and priests who aren't part of the official patriotic Chinese Catholic Church whose priests and now bishops are nominated by the government without not even the Pope's approval. The Hong Kong bishop, faithful to the Pope, is challenging and disputing this situation. Catholics aren't part of national churches, but of the Universal Church under the spiritual lead of the Pope, St. Peter's successor.
Therefore all priests and bishops not nominated and at least confirmed and blessed by Pope's approval, or better made against it, are now declared "excommunicated" (out of the communion) "latae sententiae", which authomatically also without a specific sentence by the ecclesiastic tribunal.
Here China government is represented by its President, Hu Jintao ...

Dear J Witt, You're possibly right, but in this age there's a longer list of guys that would make Obama look like a saint and actually US aren't messing up too much lately, considering its size and role (and debt and financial hidden rulers). Even among democratic countries there are guys who look far worse, either here or in France or UK ...:D But let's just have a sound laugh so as not to stir up unproper sentiments of divisions because that's the real problem in these days, everybody against each other.
Glad You enjoyed this. Thank You.

07-21-2011, 08:12 AM
Hail O Ceasar O mighty one after careful thought you can't be a Pope as

you like the girls to much :D the chinese as the oldest known civilization

decided that they wanted their own pope one that hadn't been created

by the Italians, as in hindsight ( the pope's ) they were a dodgy lot

just as well Jesus is not around as he would have chucked them all out

but then they gave him the chop with the help of the Roman's :D:D

07-21-2011, 08:45 AM
I laugh too, nicely done

07-21-2011, 09:22 AM
Dear ATPlus, pls be informed the Pope is neither Italian (not the last two and so many others in the centuries) nor established by Italian governments and not even elected by Italian cardinals only, least for any national purpose, since the Catholic Church, and St. Peter's seat in Rome exist since the first Emperor of the Roman Empire (Rome was a Republic before), which ruled more or less most of the then known world. That is Church exist since a couple of millennia, while Italy was united only 150 years ago. Even the Pope's "army" is made of Swiss, not Italians.
Moreover Jesus establish one church and not one for each nationality since He's supposed to be the Lord of anyone in the Universe and don't ask for passports. He didn't announce and live different Gospels depending from local traditions, folklore or government form. As a matter of fact all local divisions in history made on political or ideological ground, including the anglican one, met either a failure or a decline, while the Pope and the Church, among huge difficulties and against all odds, is still there, united and reference for a billion Catholics (formally at least) who are from practically any place of the Earth whatever mistakes, sins, crimes and fierce foes may have produced or do produce against it.
Apparently Jesus promises were kept and work notwithstanding he's got only a weak mankind to run His project, thus no better stuff than any other community, but better endowed with the Holy Spirit presence maybe ...;):)

Thank you, dear EB! Glad You had fun with this ... and Mr. Hu Jintao did need an exorcist after the Dalai Lama paid a visit to Mr. Obama ...:D

07-21-2011, 09:54 AM
Caesar,I am sorry if I offend but I wasn't remarking on any religious person but anyone in power, and as they all have power should be watched and wondered at, after all they are just men ( not to disrespect men I would say ladies also if they were depicted there :D )

07-21-2011, 10:31 AM
hail O Caesar O Mighty one most of the foreign pope's have been

politcal appointments to keep the flag flying in their country's

as for the billions of catholic's how many would be catholic's if they had

chosen not born into it by catholic church law :confused: as for the

Swiss guards just dressage like buck palace just as a point how many

pope's have been Italian and how many foreign???

07-21-2011, 09:18 PM
Dear Jean, no offence at all. As a matter of fact any power, but certainly the mundane and political share of it in particular, can pervert people, the greatest the most and that's the only reason why I told that the two spiritual leaders could be considered dangerous ...
Also buddhists had some problems in China centuries ago since they constituted an established organization to a great extent not controlled by the Emperor.
Some more? Just think that the fourth crusade never got in Middle East and the troops and the Venitian ships carrying them and being paid had Bisantium as the victim and they were Christians too,although Orthodoxes. Obviously crusades mixed faith with domain wish and failed not because of massacres and violence because Europe feudal system was economically and culturally unadequate to face and to rule a then more advanced civilization. On the other side Arabians and Turks didn't behave better against people on the other side of the Mediterranean when they invaded, something we should remeber too aside. Just as a little example of mutual religious tolerance, a few centuries ago in a town of Apulia, Vieste, 700 men refusing to convert got their heads chopped on the same stone and their family carried away as slaves (apart from the old ones killed).

Dear 80+, John Paul II and Benedict XVI flag popes? Do You have any idea of how much appreciated was the former one all over the world? or news of any vaguely comparable or larger amount of delegations and people coming from all over the world like it happed at his funerals?
You're right, religious accountings are unreliable, as You say, but I would say that in recent times Your statement has no more sense in either Europe, or America at least, I rather wonder in other places, especially where Islam is state religion and any change would be apostasy (worse than betrayal). Warm believers are a minority anyhow anywhere, my dear.
It's easier and even more comfortable for us all to look skeptical or lukewarm.
Even more, in these days You are supposed not to be Christian also in once christian countries, where's there's no state religion, not even laicism or atheism I guess, even worse is being catholic also in most western democratic countries I would say. Therefore it's all, but an obvious choice.
As for the popes, the initial series is made of people from anywhere coming from any place of the Roman Empire. The fact that Rome was since 2000 years the centre (with Constantinople, the second eastern Rome of the Empire challenging that later on and becoming the reference for Orthodoxes) is historically clear, since our western civilization and even the concept of Europe wouldn't exist as a concept withouth the Roman Empire and Christianity.
Moreover Italy was also the country that saved at home and recovered for Arabians all ancient and therefrom derived knowledge and recovered ingnited Humanism and Renaissance and the cultural reference for all Europe from the 15th up to most of the XVIIIth century.
It was also the country where everybody came as invaders and also where Emperors, like Charlesmagne and his successors came to be nominated by the pope.
In the meanwhile places other than Europe all over the world were considered only colonies, as British know particularly well, and not considered up to the XIX century, just to consider that US became a player too.
Therefore, also considering that many Popes in the centuries, came out from noble and powerful families and the most important national states, it's quite obvious that many "Italians", Spanish and French became pope.
Among what You would call the "Italians" anyway, when Italy didn't exist (Italy is such since 1860) there were quite a lot coming from foreign noble families, such as the famous Borgia, who were Spanish.
Therefore it's hard to make a reliable calculation, even if the list of Popes since Peter is available to anyone on the net, also on the Vatican site I guess and not in Latin. :D I may anticipate You that Adrian IV (1100-1159), alias Nicholas Breakspear was English from Abbots Langley, Hertfordshire, even if England was remote and had no "business" in Rome.
Swiss guards are all Swiss nationality and the dressage is not Swiss, but Italian, by a minor fashion designer called Michelangelo.
My dear friend, history should be read not from magazines or thriller bestsellers I'm afraid ...

07-22-2011, 05:50 AM
Hail O Caesar O Mighty One shame on you didn't think you read such

TRASH ( Magazines or thrillers ) didn't realize that was your taste :eek:

07-22-2011, 05:57 AM
Fabulous sketches dear Cesare:):)

07-22-2011, 07:24 AM
Very well spotted. The way, you draw these figures says everything about the subject.
Political satire does not necessarily carry an agenda nor seek to influence the political process. While occasionally it may, it more commonly aims simply to provide entertainment. And this is what this drawing does it in enjoyable manner. The right perspective is not always artist's matter. It's also pretty much, everything what's needed to refrain from trash comments.

07-22-2011, 08:05 PM
Thank You, dear Strandy!
I like to draw satyrical vignettes and to put some situations in a funny way so that anyone may possibly deduct some thought thereabout and think to perceive some little truth under the veils.
The reason why I like them is also that they are speechless (apart from a limited explanation hint in case) and , notwithstanding they represent under a certain perspective some facts or events, their interpretation is to some extent adaptable to any personal knowledge and view, so don't nee to share word definitions and other assumptions.
Moreover making caricatures of people is to draw thair appearance and official mask (to say it with Luigi Pirandello), thus it means to me that no personal offence is intented to any of the character, and the vignette is just to show some ridiculous or grotesque behaviours or situations the masks which all of has carries or has to carry.
I realize though that even if this one deals with fundamentally international news, it was not that clear to everybody, so we ended up recovering also middle age history and recognize the frequent issue of the investitures war and dispute between the political (usually geographically confined and authoritarian) and religious (usually universally intended) powers affecting various places and actors in different ages.

07-22-2011, 10:37 PM
Hail O Caesar O Mighty One sorry about my drawing skill not as good as

yours did ask M-F but she's not talking to me any longer do like this

Satire bit narf good might try some more now you've shown me


07-22-2011, 11:53 PM
I didn't read anything about this on the newspaper, dear 33+ (I presume), so here we may probably miss the basic event. Anyway, if I understood it well, this was part of Your curriculum when You tried to convince Mel Gibson to hire You for his movie on the Passion .... LOL:D

07-23-2011, 04:39 AM
Hail O Caesar O Mighty Presumer

Thanks for taking thirty years off my life will I be able to run up

the hill now :D ??? , Who's Mel Gibson is he a mate of your's???

Don't watch films to busy Sketching ok

p.s might put in for the Marathon :D now I can run :cool::cool:

by the way Thanks! all this writing is helping my spelling


07-23-2011, 06:46 AM
Don't tell me You never heard of the actor Mel Gibson (the one of Braveheart, but i guess You're not Scottish) and, in particular, of his quite unique version of the Passion movie! :eek:

07-23-2011, 08:46 AM
Hail O Caesar nope don't think so when I put the tv on always bbc 4

at the moment I like Walleka ?? think belgium series or the oldies in new

tricks that's if I don't fall asleep and I'm half welsh and half a scot and

born in England a good mix quite mad that's why the Romans built

the Wall Chio or should I say Italiens :D :D :D


07-23-2011, 09:49 AM
well the cartoon is brilliantly drawn Cesare. Barry is spot on wonderful.
As well as the Chinese leader who is needing the exorcism because he seems to float off the ground with anger.

but why on earth would you want to anger the one you owe so much money to. that seems a very foolish alliance to me. oh and where is the queen she should be pulling the strings above Pinocchio (Obama) and making him dance.
I would not want to waken the sleeping red bull let alone anger him.
Perhaps all three, the queen, the pope, and the dalai lama could be seen from above pulling on little Pinocchio's strings and making him dance. someday I hope he grows up and becomes a real boy.
sometimes in the course of human events it becomes necessary.

something we can all agree on... your drawing skills are superb here.

07-25-2011, 09:25 PM
Dear ATPlus the Old, I didn't see You wearing a skirt, but glad to know You can play pipes like the sheperds from my mountains. Actually the ancient Romans started to be a mix of Latins, Sabins and Etruscan and ended up by being from all over the civilized Europe, North Africa and the Middle East during the Empire, anywhere they could get that most wanted citizenship (different races and religions weren't a problem within the Empire and its rules). When Romans conquered Britain, the term already included people from Spain, Portugal, France, Switzerland, North Africa with Egypt, Greece etc., just like the Church since its start (not yet Catholics Roman as separated by the eastern Orthodox one few decades after the 1000 a.C. for essentially political issues concerning its hierarchy rather than a different doctrine or the use of Latin and Ancient Greek in the two parts of the former Roman Empire) .
Moreover it looks like that King Arthur legend was possibly based on the fact that the then British aborigins (celts who became also romans by culture and some foreign presence descendants) tried to keep their civilization alive against barbarian invasions by Angles and Saxons once Roman Empire definetely disappeared.
Scotts and Pitts from the north weren't the problem then. Not even beforereally although a certainly annoying presence with their raids (as awfully unelegantly depicted as they were :p) . The Wall was therefore actually built to set where Roman conquest interests ceased, since there was no more anything of interest for seeding, building and ruling beyond (they probably didn't appreciate trout fishing) and people over there weren't friendly enough to share a beer jug. :D

Dear Albert, I think Americans are certainly the ones in the best position to comment on Obama policies and behaviour, certainly in particular concerning the national policies, and I'm not an expert. Personally I liked the idea to widen the health insurance coverage, since it's a quite natural collective, state responsibility all over here in Europe.
Obviously there are moves US makes with heavy international consequences we may all comment from abroad, often even better because they're closer and more understandable issues to us.
Concerning the Red Dragon, whilst I think it's always profitable to talk and improve undeerstanding, reach agreements and exchanges with anyone, and this is particularly true with China, I wouldn't just bow, also because although China is the greatest world creditor towards many countries, it's also got to invest abroad, needs foreign markets, world resources etc. to keep growing, earning, feeding its population etc., (historically their empires have always had the problem of a huge population for a comparatively limited and enclosed territory and its agricultural potential). Therefore they could never give foundation to their own world empire and set their rules (they always refrained from enclosing anyone around in the centuries other than by cultural influence), at least if anyone else is smart and cohesive enough and have enough respect of truth and values which work universally in their essence, because mankind is one species only this far.

07-25-2011, 10:43 PM
Hail O Caesar O Mighty One your mob never conquered britain just tourist

for a short stay but had to go back home cos of the coruption in high

place's but they returned must have liked it here bit like the chinese

as we're stacked with Italien resturants and ice cream but every thing else

we buy is Chinese ok :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D----E/S

07-26-2011, 02:04 AM
Right, there was quite a queue conquering Britain afterwards, once civilized, it became of interest other than for sheep raising.
Therefore, as I said, it was Angles, Saxons, French turns to get in for a stay and a mix-up. Spanish were about too, but they unfortunately had a little problem with a huge storm defeating their Invincible Armada and You lost tourist for quite some time. So You had to look for ships to plunder and colonies to despoil all over the world to pay for Your quite high royal and peer expenses, :p but now You're again commercially invaded once more.
Nonetheless You're right to buy chinese products. They're not that bad anymore in many cases, they're cheaper and affordable for sure and ... there's no more almost anything British made to buy anyway .... :D In the meanwhile it looks like that You improved very much, as far as corruption and lies is concerned, if I understood well enough also Murdoch affair or remind Mr. Blair's stories about Iraq mass destruction weapons ... ;)
God save the Queen, because I can hardly see a great Royal future ...

L Skylar Brown
07-26-2011, 03:44 AM
Caesar - An Excellent Illustration, & it is quite correct, politically (as opposed to "Politically Correct"). I doubt you expected this much of a stir, tho. A Good Political Cartoon has truth at its heart.

07-26-2011, 04:05 AM
... and substantially it is supposed to be on the side of the weaker part hopefully, the amiable Dalai Lama and poor clandestine Christians in China. Thank You, dear Skylar!

07-26-2011, 08:42 PM
George orwell

07-26-2011, 09:37 PM
... and Ray Bradbury too and no more San Bonaventura da Bagnoregio or Saint Augustine. :(