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PICASO41
01-26-2011, 06:13 AM
Greets all :)

Had a question and i dont know if this was answered before, maybe i missed it somewhere.

But it is possible to achieve the bleed out effect with watercolors in AR?
Like how it feathers or viens into the paper texture, also without the help of any other tools? example below.

I've tried fiddling with all the settings but only with watercolor paper texture chosen.

I can understand that to achieve this kind of effect it must require some intense math for the engine to grind.

But all in all, i was just curious

Thanx guys :)

Mike B

Someonesane
01-26-2011, 07:33 AM
It won't really happen by itself. It can sort of be mimicked by changing the layer textures Roughness setting while you're working, then going back into the color with a diluted color (adding water). I've attached a study of the image you provided, done completely using this process in ArtRage. I kept to using the Watercolor tool, as much as I could. So I didn't use the Palette Knife at all (which I normally use often with the Watercolor tool), and only used erase as a tool for drying the wet areas of paint (which helps define color edges). Stencils were used to keep the form of the bubbles.


52207

PICASO41
01-27-2011, 03:08 AM
Thank you Someone

This has been extremely helpful and i loved how you achieved the textures, brilliant.

Mike

Someonesane
01-27-2011, 06:13 AM
No problem :). I forgot to mention that it also helps to vary the layer textures as well (which can be done separately from the canvas texture). This will create variances in the directions of the paint bleeds. I only stuck to one texture in my example, but I did change it's Grain Size settings, here and there, to give the paint extra areas to flow into.

Not sure if you'd be interested in it, but I've attached the grain I used for the study above to this post (I would attach the .cpr canvas file, but it's to big). It's a picture of my carpet, which I made into a seamless tile for use as a grain texture. I had originally intended it to be used with the Charcoal and Crayon tools, but I think it works much better for the Watercolor tool.

screenpainter
01-28-2011, 11:34 AM
Mike, what a great style of watercolor. I can see why you would want to paint in that style. She is very talented. Her style really gets the watercolor juices flowing.
SOS. That looks spot on. Thanks for giving us all a new grain also. Can't wait to try that one.
Not sure I fully understand how you did it without the palette knife. I will try
playing around with the eraser and see if I can understand what you are saying about using the eraser.
This one screams for a video tutorial. :)
That was really an amazing reproduction.
If the original was real watercolor I imagine she must have used frisket to block out the white areas.

Someonesane
01-29-2011, 12:09 PM
SOS. That looks spot on. Thanks for giving us all a new grain also. Can't wait to try that one.
Not sure I fully understand how you did it without the palette knife. I will try
playing around with the eraser and see if I can understand what you are saying about using the eraser.
This one screams for a video tutorial. :)
That was really an amazing reproduction.
If the original was real watercolor I imagine she must have used frisket to block out the white areas.


I'll try to throw together a video demonstration when I get the chance. The idea with the eraser is pretty simple though. I turn it's pressure down to 0%. This way, when it's applied with a light touch, it won't remove any color at all. I know it sounds odd, but there's a good reason... You see, by doing this, the eraser sops up the "wetness" of the paint in that area alone, and leaves the paint around it wet. Applying more wet paint to this area will have it react like it's going onto a completely dried surface. Dragging the brush around, and into an non-erased area (thus it'd still be "wet"), allows the paint to bleed again. This is good for when you need a crisp edge of color that bleeds into another color.

screenpainter
03-27-2011, 09:38 AM
yeah that would make a great video to watch the whole watercolor process for sure. what a spot on reproduction that is.

Steve B
06-16-2011, 02:03 AM
Someonesane,
I know this thread is a little old, but I just can't really seem to find much info about doing watercolors with Artrage. If you get around to ever putting up the tutorial of which you spoke, that would be AMAZINGLY wonderful, as you clearly have an approach to digital watercolors with Artrage that's working.

Someonesane
06-16-2011, 03:11 AM
Hi Steve,

I had a particular reason for holding off on this tutorial, which I can't really speak about directly. However, since I know there are some other people waiting for it, I'll try to at least put something together showing some of the techniques I prefer to use.

Sethren
06-16-2011, 08:26 AM
The effect you see is fluid dispersion for one. I hope Art Rage can some day simulate such effects like this and more.

Someonesane
06-23-2011, 02:40 PM
Okay, here is the tutorial: VIDEO (http://youtu.be/AsgwbHMaqjY)

Sorry it took so long. I really wanted to wait to do it (for reasons I can't really go into detail about), but since I've been asked about it a lot lately, I decided I couldn't really put it off anymore. Hopefully I explained it well enough. Here's the image I used as an example in the video (click for larger version):

http://www2.ambientdesign.com/gallery/files/3/3/4/2/skull_tutorial_completed_thumb.jpg (http://www2.ambientdesign.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=16335&c=3)

shechat
06-23-2011, 08:03 PM
Thank you someonesane. I paint in real media watercolours but have never been able to come to terms with the digital watercolour tool in Artrage, which was a big disappointment because I was so looking forward to the new tool when the latest version came out.

I will study your excellent video to learn the techniques you have shown.

I really appreciate your generosity and thoughtfulness in taking the time to show the way

Chuckart
06-24-2011, 02:55 AM
Nice tut SOS. :cool: Imported a couple of textures. Had a play around with canvas and brush settings which gave some weird and wonderful results.

Someonesane
06-24-2011, 03:10 AM
Thank you someonesane. I paint in real media watercolours but have never been able to come to terms with the digital watercolour tool in Artrage, which was a big disappointment because I was so looking forward to the new tool when the latest version came out.

I will study your excellent video to learn the techniques you have shown.

I really appreciate your generosity and thoughtfulness in taking the time to show the way

No problem shechat :cool:. I find that it's best to not overwork the paint to much, and to use a high amount of thinners (at least for the style I use). In the video, I used a heavy amount of color, so that it would be clear enough to see, but I tend to just do layers of thinned paint, adding textures where needed, until I get a result I'm happy with.


Nice tut SOS. :cool: Imported a couple of textures. Had a play around with canvas and brush settings which gave some weird and wonderful results.

Thanks Chuckart :). Yeah, it's fun testing out the various styles one can manage, by using different textures. Small changes in the Roughness option of the layer texture, can go a long way in adding different effects to a grain.

justjean
06-27-2011, 03:44 AM
SOS, was just watching your excellent tutorial on watercolour, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge re ArtRage it is very much appreciated :)

screenpainter
07-06-2011, 10:04 AM
amazing watercolor tutorial SOS. You did an amazing and thorough job on this and it was worth waiting for. awesome tutorial that was clear and easy to follow. If you want to throw some G7 my way I wouldn't complain. :)

AT-TA
07-07-2011, 08:45 AM
Thank you a lot, someonesane, this is a wonderful tut i needed to see. I will now work more often in wc, it just looks so easy and results looks so pretty. Thanks a lot once more.:)

Chuckart
07-08-2011, 09:21 AM
You should get some weird and wonderful WC stuff going with these. Just play around with Roughness and Grain.

Angelo
07-08-2011, 09:37 AM
:)cela est ma première phrase sur ce site que je découvre
i like your pictures bonjour de FRANCE, je vais donc me sentir obliger de dessiner
plus souvent pour arriver à un niveau correct comme vous;
vous allez m'encourager Merci !!!! thank you ,good luck

justjean
07-08-2011, 11:27 AM
Thanks SOS and Chuckart for your grains ? texture ? now I just have to figure out how to get them into ARPro :)

Chuckart
07-08-2011, 11:59 AM
Thanks SOS and Chuckart for your grains ? texture ? now I just have to figure out how to get them into ARPro :)


http://www.youtube.com/user/someonesane#p/u/1/Gfn9NHr6HbA

DaveRage
07-08-2011, 12:36 PM
Thanks SOS and Chuckart for your grains ? texture ? now I just have to figure out how to get them into ARPro :)

I've written a guide here which details loading resources into the various versions of ArtRage.

http://www2.ambientdesign.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18574

screenpainter
07-08-2011, 10:14 PM
Thanks Chuckart for the grains. Thanks Dave for the guide.

Someonesane
07-09-2011, 04:07 AM
Sorry for the late reply. I was on a 4th of July Vacation for the past week. I'm glad the tutorial has been helpful :).


If you want to throw some G7 my way I wouldn't complain. :)


Hi Albert, thanks :D. If I'm not mistaken, the carpet image I attached a few posts up, is the one used in my "G7" preset. I'll double check it later, to make sure, and get back to you.

justjean
07-09-2011, 11:34 AM
I've written a guide here which details loading resources into the various versions of ArtRage.

http://www2.ambientdesign.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18574


Thanks Dave, I'm on my way :D

Rowena
07-15-2011, 06:01 AM
This is fantastic, and SS - you are brilliant!
PS: please add me to the list of those eager to see your tut - I'm pretty sure I'm subscribed to your YouTube list, but would love a reminder just in case its not destined to be there :cool:

Steve B
07-15-2011, 06:24 AM
Rowena, Someonesane's awesomely useful tutorial is already up on Youtube. If you go to his channel, you'll see it there.

Also, I hope the reason he was waiting to post is because there's an Artrage techniques and examples book coming out with examples in it, or some such thing. Seemed like he was waiting for something before he was going to post. I saw that there might be something like that coming out over at Nick Harris' website-- it's posted in his Artrage section as "coming out in 2011". IMO, Someonesane's work and tutorial methodology is easily good enough to be in a book.

Very useful stuff!! :)

Someonesane
07-15-2011, 07:57 AM
@ gzairborne - As I suspected, the image of the carpet I posted here, is the texture I used in my video. So if you apply it as a grain, you should be set to go.

@ Rowena - As Steve B mentioned, the video I was intending to create is up at youtube now. The link for it is a few posts up, but just so you don't need to go looking for it, here it is again: http://youtu.be/AsgwbHMaqjY

@ Steve B - I'm afraid I don't have any books coming out, unfortunately lol. I only wanted to wait, because I knew ARSP 3.5 was going to have multi-threading, and the new Script feature, which I was hoping to use. I had planned to package a Script for people to watch (instead of a video) along with any Canvases, Texture Grains, and presets I thought might come in handy. I'm still planning on it, I just need to find the time to put it all together.

Steve B
08-04-2011, 05:19 PM
In general, this tut has been very very useful for me. However, I'm still trying to apply one technique, and having a bugger of a time getting much of anything to happen. You mention erasing with 0% pressure over a color you've put down with, then putting the next color down on top of it. I've done this, but I don't see any noticeable effect or difference. What should I be accomplishing by doing this? Can you put a pic up that demonstrates the visual shift between the "erased" area and the "non-erased"?

KarenB
08-05-2011, 05:24 AM
Here is a nice link to Someonesane's YouTube video.

Watercolor method (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsgwbHMaqjY)

Someonesane
08-05-2011, 06:40 AM
In general, this tut has been very very useful for me. However, I'm still trying to apply one technique, and having a bugger of a time getting much of anything to happen. You mention erasing with 0% pressure over a color you've put down with, then putting the next color down on top of it. I've done this, but I don't see any noticeable effect or difference. What should I be accomplishing by doing this? Can you put a pic up that demonstrates the visual shift between the "erased" area and the "non-erased"?


I don't recall if I mentioned it in the video KarenB posted there. In case I didn't, I've attached a script here, that will explain it, in a basic way. I'm afraid I won't be able to do much more then this, at the moment, because I'm fighting an infection, and my concentration isn't what it should be. Hopefully the script playback will answer any questions you had.

Steve B
08-11-2011, 04:19 AM
Sorry to hear you are/weren't doing well. :(

Thanks for spending the time to make this very simple script. I now understand what you're talking about. The real question is what an application of this might be in a painting. How do you think this is different than just making a new layer, painting on top, and then dropping it? What's an example of how you're using it? Just interested to see an example of the technique in action-- it sounds like it's a part of your process.

Someonesane
08-11-2011, 06:02 AM
The real question is what an application of this might be in a painting. How do you think this is different than just making a new layer, painting on top, and then dropping it?


The major difference is in how the paint react to each other. In the example image below, you can see how the paint not only keeps a hard edge where I erased, but also bled and blended into the red paint (point B, Top). When doing the same, by using a separate layer, one doesn't get the same bleeding and blending on the edge, so the paint remains a solid yellow (point B, Bottom). One may also control how the previous paints edge is handled. Since I didn't use the eraser on the edge of the wet red paint, when I swept into it with the yellow, the two paints blended together, leaving no hard edge at that location (point A, Top). Doing the same with a separate layer, means that the hard edge will left present (point A, Bottom).


What's an example of how you're using it? Just interested to see an example of the technique in action-- it sounds like it's a part of your process.


It is a part of my process, but it's not a huge part of it. It's a time saver from having to create a new layer, just to get a small hard edge in an area, or a method of getting an extra line of texture, without pulling out a stencil or changing the layer texture.

PaperTree
08-11-2011, 09:13 PM
Wow, this is incredible! Thanks Someonesane this is just the sort of instruction that helps me achieve the look that I want to get ("top", painted on same layer). I want a loose looking watercolour look and the edge look bleeding into the paint is the sort of thing I am after too. Your tricks in getting the program to comply really helps a novice like me to keep practising. Many thanks.

Steve B
08-22-2011, 01:41 PM
Sos,
I'm using your layer select method from the tutorial, where I paint with watercolors on an early layer the shape I want, select it, make a new layer, then invert it later on to paint the shadows under the leaf rim in the final step. When I do so, it doesn't actually stay outside the lines. It lighter, under all the other layers, but still visible. I can go back and erase to the edge, but that seems like extra work. Do you know what I'm doing wrong? I even tried selecting the base leaf shape, making a new layer, inverting it, and then using the bucket to fill the background in black-- then using that new black fill layer (which surrounds the leaf) to use for my "layer select", thinking perhaps my not-right results had something to do with watercolor transparency.... but no, that didn't work either. Here's an image I'm working on to show you what I'm doing.

Any thoughts?

Someonesane
08-22-2011, 02:36 PM
Wow, this is incredible! Thanks Someonesane

No problem. Hope it helps :)



Sos,
I'm using your layer select method from the tutorial, where I paint with watercolors on an early layer the shape I want, select it, make a new layer, then invert it later on to paint the shadows under the leaf rim in the final step. When I do so, it doesn't actually stay outside the lines. It lighter, under all the other layers, but still visible. I can go back and erase to the edge, but that seems like extra work. Do you know what I'm doing wrong? I even tried selecting the base leaf shape, making a new layer, inverting it, and then using the bucket to fill the background in black-- then using that new black fill layer (which surrounds the leaf) to use for my "layer select", thinking perhaps my not-right results had something to do with watercolor transparency.... but no, that didn't work either. Here's an image I'm working on to show you what I'm doing.

Any thoughts?


Is the layer the leaf is on set to use a blend mode other then "Normal"? If not, then it has to be that the colors used to make the leaf were semi-transparent, or thinned out at some point. In my video for the skull, I explain (at around 6:11) that I had filled the background of the layer I had selected in with the watercolor tool set to use insta-dry and the thinners set to 0%. When using the watercolor tool, I almost always do this, and then leave that layer alone, for the duration of the painting. This way I'm assured a quick method of masking my area. Later on in the video, I invert that selection, to paint the inside of the skull, leaving the outside background alone.

However, as you said, it's really just a matter of erasing back what you don't want to show through. That or painting in the area on another layer (with a solid color), and keeping that for selection/masking purposes, if you plan do more with it later on.

Steve B
08-22-2011, 03:58 PM
Ahhhhhh,
So it was something to do with using watercolors for "blocking out" the selection. Ok, I will try that. To reiterate-
1) I should have used 0% thinners-- and you're right, I don't think I checked that, and
2) The bottom layer may be set to something other than "Normal". I'll check that too.

And... ::sheepish:: yes, I suppose I should have just rewatched the video. !! :)

Thanks!

screenpainter
08-22-2011, 04:25 PM
That's a beautifully painted leaf Steve. one I would certainly be happy with. it's gorgeous. really.

Steve B
08-22-2011, 05:57 PM
Thank you screenpainter. That's nice to hear, as you've been following the thread in the critique forum. Perhaps the third time will really be the charm!! :) It seems it really is true that if you paint something enough times you do actually seem to get better at it. ::gasp!!::

I'm actually looking forward to trying out your tips about doing the water droplets. I'm also going to drop it at the end and get a canvas under it with some texture, so that should help. I need to remember to do that at the beginning. Pondering putting it on water, but will have to see about that. That's its own little adventure, and I'd like to get this one to be successful first, before I mess it up again!

Speaking of which, a bit OT, but can you "insert" a new canvas under a drawing after you've started it? The only thing I could think of was to remove the base layer on the original drawing, merge the layers, and save as a single layer drawing, which can then be imported to a layer in a new doc with a different canvas. It works, but it's also very limiting. If I could dynamically change the canvas as I went, that would be very cool.

edit:
Hey Someonesane-- Yep, that issue with opacity did the trick. Very cool news. I'd honestly been struggling with this detail for the last few paintings, so it's nice to see that ironed out. Works like a dream now! :D

screenpainter
03-08-2012, 04:00 PM
sorry, I didn't see your last response. I suppose you well know by now you can change the watercolor paper texture for all layers. :)

Steve B
03-14-2012, 03:47 AM
I don't think the question was about changing layer textures, but rather about trying to change the canvas layer after the fact, and I was having a hard time doing it. It seemed like you weren't allowed to do that. ?? I'm not normally painting on the canvas layer itself, but rather using layer textures a lot, so having paint on the base layer wasn't an issue.

As such, I had to remove the base layer, save the painting without a canvas, and import it to a new painting with a new canvas.

Did I jump through unnecessary hoops, or is that the way it needs to be done?

screenpainter
03-14-2012, 05:17 AM
As far as I know, canvas texture is not dependent upon first layers, but still remains even if you discard the first layer since the canvas texture effects all the layers globally. Individual layer textures can change the settings for individual layers but I think the overall canvas texture remains.
I could be wrong, but it would be easy to change the base canvas again from the menu at the bottom of the layers palette or by control shift C.

btw, Juz has made available a wonderful paper I like using for watercolor called parchment in the art supplies section. I think you will love it.

Have you tried this g7 paper by someone sane in this thread.? Because that is the most amazing watercolor paper I have found. It is amazing.

Someonesane
03-14-2012, 12:03 PM
...can you "insert" a new canvas under a drawing after you've started it? .


You're talking about the canvas itself, and not a layer you painted, correct? If so, it should be as simple as Opening the Canvas Panel (View > Canvas Settings OR Click on the Layer Panels Main Menu tab, and select Canvas Settings, at the bottom of the menu) and then changing the Canvas type. The grain will be visible through all of the layers, but the texture will only be picked up by layers set to use the "Canvas Texture" still. So if you manually changed a specific layers texture, it will not conform to the new canvas textures, until you tell it to.


Hey Someonesane-- Yep, that issue with opacity did the trick. Very cool news. I'd honestly been struggling with this detail for the last few paintings, so it's nice to see that ironed out. Works like a dream now! :D


Glad to hear it :)



Have you tried this g7 paper by someone sane in this thread.? Because that is the most amazing watercolor paper I have found. It is amazing.


I still find it funny that a picture of my carpet worked well for a watercolor texture, lol.

GaryExo
05-13-2012, 11:25 PM
Someonesane, I love what you're able to achieve with that carpet texture of yours. It's brilliant. I can deduce from this thread and the tutorial that ArtRage actually offers infinite possibilities by careful use and abuse of images for textures. This pleases me greatly.

Dreagthe
06-28-2012, 04:08 PM
My trick to do this kind of thing is to have a bit of fun making a small real watercolor with the bleed you need. Let it dry then scan it and add it to artrage as a layer. Set the layer to tint--and you can then manipulate its colors etc.

It's kind of nice to pick up a real brush now and then. :-)

Kind regards

Brett

PaperTree
06-28-2012, 08:05 PM
My trick to do this kind of thing is to have a bit of fun making a small real watercolor with the bleed you need. Let it dry then scan it and add it to artrage as a layer. Set the layer to tint--and you can then manipulate its colors etc.

Wow, what a great idea Dreagthe, I'd love to see some examples of this method in your galary or here in this thread. Any chance?

Dreagthe
06-29-2012, 04:45 PM
Wow, what a great idea Dreagthe, I'd love to see some examples of this method in your galary or here in this thread. Any chance?

Hi PaperTree

If you like you can see my paintings which incorporate both digital and real watercolor layers over at dreagthe.deviantart.com. Those are done in painter since I just bought Artrage yesterday--but I've tested it out in Artrage and it works. I hope to get some Artrage ones done soon, then I'll see if I can learn how to post an example up.

Kind regards

Brett

Dreagthe
07-02-2012, 09:55 AM
Hey PaperTree

I've pasted my first piece with Artrage up on the gallery, showing off the technique of combining real and digital watercolour in Artrage.

http://www2.ambientdesign.com/forums/showthread.php?40896-Look-Out!-It-s-my-first-ArtRage-painting

I've used the technique here to add watercolour-realism and to create textures like the grass and the dirty paint on the car.

Kind regards
Brett


Hi PaperTree

If you like you can see my paintings which incorporate both digital and real watercolor layers over at dreagthe.deviantart.com. Those are done in painter since I just bought Artrage yesterday--but I've tested it out in Artrage and it works. I hope to get some Artrage ones done soon, then I'll see if I can learn how to post an example up.

Kind regards

Brett

PaperTree
07-02-2012, 09:33 PM
I popped over to see your work Dreagthe, at deviantart and thought it was good, and thanks for the link to your first AR painting. This has encouraged me to have a go at morph work too. Thanks for the idea.

Dreagthe
07-03-2012, 09:45 AM
You're very welcome, PaperTree. It'd be great to see how you go with it.

Kind regards,
Brett


I popped over to see your work Dreagthe, at deviantart and thought it was good, and thanks for the link to your first AR painting. This has encouraged me to have a go at morph work too. Thanks for the idea.

screenpainter
02-27-2013, 09:08 PM
bringing forward. interesting watercolor info in here. ;)