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Bumble
09-15-2006, 09:26 PM
I started this a few days ago, and I have been adding to it as I get more ideas. I did the tree first then I added the fence but now I think the tree looks flat :? Any ideas? Not sure about the dark cloud in the corner of the sky either might redo that...

Bumble
09-17-2006, 12:49 AM
I took the tree out until I can get a picture reference to help, so for now I have renamed and added little detail.....

Aged P
09-17-2006, 01:35 AM
Hi Bumble,

Welcome to the Lion's Den! :lol:

With the sun that low above the hill the shadows across it would be a fair bit longer.

The fence shadows should all be aligned to the dead centre of the Sun. With the low Sun, they might well be longer too, but that depends on the ground contour as well.

The tree looked a bit iffy because where it touched the ground would be the darkest tone and shadow in the whole picture.

If you look at the famous guys they actually painted a fine black line where chair legs, shoes, bottles or whatever touched a hard surface. Van Gogh often forgot, so some of his chairs have one leg that seems to be trying to shake hands with the viewer. :D

I can put a few lines on the pic to show you what I mean, but only with your express permission!

Phil

Bumble
09-17-2006, 02:04 AM
Thank You for the comments Aged P I shall try to adjust accordingly...and yes you can add a few lines to show me what you mean :)

Aged P
09-17-2006, 02:53 AM
Hi Bumble,

I always ask about changing things. :D


These lines show which shadows are on line and which are not.
Ticks and crosses are a bit school teacherish but they show what I mean.

To find where the end of the shadows would be, imagine them connecting to the top of the posts instead. They will end where the line strikes the ground this side of the fence. I don't think they would ever touch, just fade away at the ends. Which means the cross rail shadows will be........?

Myself, I don't think you can beat a nice dry stone wall at that time of the evening. I can put you on to a guy in Corris who builds them. :lol:

Phil

Bumble
09-17-2006, 05:48 AM
I made some adjustments....forgot to say in the last post.... welcome back hope you are feeling better?

Aged P
09-17-2006, 06:39 AM
Hi Bumble,

Much better! I sometimes think my sensitivity about perspective is more down to being an engineer than a painter. :lol:


Today was a really good day, so I think I'm on the rebound.
I await the opinion of three random consultants who didn't even acknowledge each other when they came face to face. They only communicate by letter!

I just noticed that you are using a mouse. some of this stuff is not so easy with a mouse.

I've got another modded version of yor pic, but I used the Airbrush.
It shows a few tips about shadows etc.
Shall I still post it?

Phil

Bumble
09-17-2006, 07:55 AM
Glad to hear you are feeling better :) :) ....yes please do post the other pic please. :) :)

Aged P
09-18-2006, 12:29 AM
Hi Bumble,

Too many notes on this, but I was trying to point out the darkest areas. The top of the hill ought to be dark but the full sun would make it impossible to see anyway.

The note about darkening the corners. don't overdo this but it does make people's eyes happy. It's more like looking at a real scene than looking at a photo of the scene. We just don't see like cameras do.
This technique corrects for the difference slightly.

Small highlights can be dropped in both where they would occur and where you want to add a bit of interest. I put a blob on top of a fence post, but it could have been a thin line down the corner facing the sun.

The tree doesn't float off the ground so much now, because I darkened and blended the area where it would touch the ground.

Phil

drzeller
09-18-2006, 05:28 AM
I hate suggest this, but I think in this case Aged P may be a little off on the lighting. What was drawn would be accurate for a light source that is much closer - but I don't think it is for sunlight.

Take a look at a real fence or any set of objects reaching across your field of view with sunlight behind them. Because of the immense distance from the Earth, the Sun's rays are essentially all parallel when they reach you. Therefore, the shadows are all pointed in the same direction.

I know someone will correct me if I am off on this.

D.

Aged P
09-18-2006, 06:08 AM
Hi David,

Closest I could find.
Ground contours can throw them off.

Phil

halley
09-18-2006, 07:24 AM
Because of the immense distance from the Earth, the Sun's rays are essentially all parallel when they reach you. Therefore, the shadows are all pointed in the same direction.

The rays from a very distant lightsource are nearly parallel, you are correct.

However, your field of view is not. You see less area in the foreground and much more area in the distance. It is this phenomenon which causes perspective diminuation and artists use vanishing lines to model it. Aged P's photograph shows this well.

If the light source were very near, then a similar construction of radiating lines would help model the shadows, but that is not due to perspective. It's merely a similar way to model both phenomena on the canvas.

Bumble
09-21-2006, 09:48 AM
Hello Is this any better?

DaveRage
09-21-2006, 02:30 PM
The painting has really come on in leaps on bounds I think. Wonderful critique, I learned a lot reading this thread, that's for sure!

scratch
06-29-2008, 06:36 AM
That was a wonderful lesson GREAT..

ScottF
06-29-2008, 09:14 AM
I agree. This was an interesting, helpful exchange. And Aged Pīs notes and comments quite informative.

damasocl
06-29-2008, 12:21 PM
This post are so advantageous for us...
Estos posteos son muy ventajosos para nosotros...

Krondelo
07-10-2008, 10:07 AM
Looks better, I do have one critique, your shadow under the log is actually too dark. My art teacher once told me to never use black, I know this isn't real painting, but if you must make a black color, instead of using straight black, mix some colors to form a dark instead.