PDA

View Full Version : Oil Spectrum for Giclee Fine Art Print Reproductions



Juz
05-13-2009, 07:16 AM
Hi ragers,

This palette has rgb values that are designed to approximate real world oil colour when working with digital printers inks. It works especially well for Giclee Fine Art Print Reproductions.

This palette is ideal for seasoned traditional oil painters who have and know the names of favorite colours.

It is also ideal for beginners who are following how to paint books/videos and are being directed to an exact colour eg/ cadmium yellow, burnt sienna etc

Can't wait to see what you guys make with it :D
Enjoy

RobertSWade
05-13-2009, 11:33 AM
Thanks Juz. :)

Juz
05-13-2009, 11:42 AM
You are most Welcome :)

DaveRage
05-13-2009, 06:06 PM
These are great, Juz! Thanks for posting them! :)

Juz
05-14-2009, 10:38 PM
Thanks for making such an awesome app to use em with :D

Rowena
05-16-2009, 01:13 AM
How perfectly delightful and excellently well timed too!!!
I have for the past 3 days been trying to achieve something like this...I scanned some oil color charts and tried to color-pick from them, buts its not as simple as that and I found I had to correct the most of the results I was getting by eye (guess work)

Ah, anyway..I am completely thrilled to find your contribution, most especially since its rgb values have been properly worked out.

A BIG thank you! :D

yachris
05-16-2009, 04:07 AM
At the risk of sounding skeptical (which is not my intent at all), if anyone tries this palette and is able to print it/have it printed on a high-end giclee printer, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let us know how it all works out.

I just went through (honestly, a pretty small amount of) agony getting my "Daughter's Tulip" (http://www2.ambientdesign.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=4723&catid=member&imageuser=7510) image printed. I finally found a place that does both "photo-paper" type printing as well as "giclee" type printing locally, AND they work with you directly, AND if it's not to your satisfaction they re-do it until it is. Took two tries, but they got it right... sorta... but I'm not sure it would ever match the monitor-image exactly.

SO, having *truly* printable colors would be fantastic.

OH YEAH: The place I got my images printed was DigiPixArt in Fairfax, Virginia. They're on the web (http://digipixart.com/), too.

Eileen724
05-16-2009, 08:21 AM
Pretty darn neat...thanks Juz! I've downloaded this and added it to my wonderful list of other color palettes acquired from this forum!!! :D

Juz
05-16-2009, 04:38 PM
Yachris,
I am a registered corel user and these colours are a direct manual translation of their oil spectrum which has been thoroughly researched with giclee.

Colour Values cannot be copyrighted thus there is no need to worry on that front.

Hope this sets your mind at ease.

byroncallas
05-16-2009, 06:11 PM
At the risk of sounding skeptical (which is not my intent at all), if anyone tries this palette and is able to print it/have it printed on a high-end giclee printer, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let us know how it all works out. I just went through (honestly, a pretty small amount of) agony getting my "Daughter's Tulip" (http://www2.ambientdesign.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=4723&catid=member&imageuser=7510) image printed. I finally found a place that does both "photo-paper" type printing as well as "giclee" type printing locally, AND they work with you directly, AND if it's not to your satisfaction they re-do it until it is. Took two tries, but they got it right... sorta... but I'm not sure it would ever match the monitor-image exactly. SO, having *truly* printable colors would be fantastic. OH YEAH: The place I got my images printed was DigiPixArt in Fairfax, Virginia. They're on the web (http://digipixart.com/), too.

Wonderful Juz. I've wanted this since the first day I opened ArtRage. In keeping with the notion of AR mimicking real-world paint tools, this pallet is a more true and useful mimic than the current AR digital color pickers. This will become my color-picker of choice simply because it close-matches real world tube paints.

Yachris (and all): As for printing, it can not be expected that what color you see on your monitor is what will print, not even with this wonderful pallet, unless you go to the effort to calibrate your monitor with the selected output device. Then, even with Giclee, it will still only be close (though probably terrific even if not spot on to your intentions.) Every monitor with all the various user adjustments looks different. The monitor is only an approximation (usually a bad approximation) of what will print. Still worse, every person sees color differently, sometimes considerably differently. The color reproduction machinery of eyes and brains are as different for each person as are the color variations on any given monitor. If you plan to print paintings and near-exact color match the way you see it is important, you must plan to work with your printers and expect a degree of agony to get to the color that near-matches your vision. I have 38 years experience matching print-output to client expectations. There is only one secret. Provide topnotch files and accurate color-match reference to and work closely with a customer friendly, competent, patient printer who has the right equipment for your needs. At the same time, don't expect perfection. Work to get something that looks great, not something that matches exactly what you see on your monitor. Often the print version will be a vast improvement over the monitor output, but will be rejected from being fixated on matching a vision rather than accepting an often more than terrific (even if minor) alternative to the color goals. Understanding these printing basics can save one from a lot of hair pulling and letdown from unfulfilled expectations, and the seemingly justified desire to murder one's commercial printer. :D:)

Peter Pinckney
05-16-2009, 09:13 PM
Now I am ashamed to say I don't know how to download this .......... Help?

Juz
05-16-2009, 10:51 PM
Hi Peter to download and install just click the Oil Spectrum.col attachment in my first post, choose save and navigate to ...Ambient Design\ArtRage 2\Resources\Colors and save there.
In artrage you will have to use the load option from the sample colours palette navigate to this same folder and choose the file.

Hope this helps

Hiya Byroncallas, glad you like them :D

Everything Byroncallas has stated about colour is indeed true. If you would like to understand more about 'why' i suggest to read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color#Relation_to_spectral_colors and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color#Pigments_and_reflective_media . Actually the entire page is handy knowledge :)

Viktor
05-16-2009, 10:52 PM
dont restrict your palette for giclee, just enjoy with artrage. colors dont match.

yachris
05-17-2009, 01:58 AM
Yachris (and all): As for printing, it can not be expected that what color you see on your monitor is what will print, not even with this wonderful pallet, unless you go to the effort to calibrate your monitor with the selected output device. Then, even with Giclee, it will still only be close (though probably terrific even if not spot on to your intentions.) Every monitor with all the various user adjustments looks different. The monitor is only an approximation (usually a bad approximation) of what will print. Still worse, every person sees color differently, sometimes considerably differently. The color reproduction machinery of eyes and brains are as different for each person as are the color variations on any given monitor. If you plan to print paintings and near-exact color match the way you see it is important, you must plan to work with your printers and expect a degree of agony to get to the color that near-matches your vision. I have 38 years experience matching print-output to client expectations. There is only one secret. Provide topnotch files and accurate color-match reference to and work closely with a customer friendly, competent, patient printer who has the right equipment for your needs. At the same time, don't expect perfection. Work to get something that looks great, not something that matches exactly what you see on your monitor. Often the print version will be a vast improvement over the monitor output, but will be rejected from being fixated on matching a vision rather than accepting an often more than terrific (even if minor) alternative to the color goals. Understanding these printing basics can save one from a lot of hair pulling and letdown from unfulfilled expectations, and the seemingly justified desrie to murder one's commercial printer. :D:)

Sage advice, indeed. I had hoped that by color-calibrating my monitor, getting and using the proper printer profiles, that I could save a step and get something close the first time... fool that I am :-).

Well, I am happy to have a color-calibrated monitor, it helps a lot. And now I have a (more than) competent printer to work with, and even better, now I have properly calibrated expectations! Thanks.

yogsodoth
05-17-2009, 04:35 AM
Don't forget... after you're done with colour calibration, you also have to worry about gamut translation between RGB and your print process (look up gamut on google for methods of dealing with the madness, I apparently can't post a URL yet since I'm new). And even then, with gamut properly tuned, you will never get perfect 100%-accurate colour translation from your monitor to your print; the best you can hope for is a fairly accurate approximation.

This is why most giclee printers do a strip-test for you before you commit to a full print. Any printer that doesn't is only going to rip you off. ALWAYS get a small print/strip-test/proof before proceeding to full production.

Working with a well-researched palette like this one or a premade set like Pantone will help you get closer to your expectations. Just be aware that in the end, even lab colour is not 100% accurate.

Juz
05-17-2009, 06:00 AM
To add to what Yogsodoth is saying...

Simon
05-17-2009, 07:52 AM
Brilliant, nice job. These will come in useful. Here's hoping for a mixer in AR3 :)

byroncallas
05-17-2009, 08:28 AM
To add to what Yogsodoth is saying...


Yes, this is correct. I happen to paint abstracts with high-key colors, and print them on canvas. Consequently it is near impossible for me to get color outputs that match my vision. I'm knowlegable about these printing problems, and consequently work with my printers to arrive at something I can live with, accepting that the printer can not be expected to defy the laws of chemistry and physics. The key with all this is to stay sane and realistic inside the restraits of your time, budget, and mechanical limitations, work with reliable professionals, and help them help you. :)

Boxy
05-17-2009, 08:56 PM
Fantastic, thanks very much!
Sav

Juz
05-17-2009, 10:53 PM
No worries guys :D

Peter Pinckney
05-18-2009, 04:05 AM
Thanks Juz......I got them!:):):)

irishrose
05-18-2009, 04:18 AM
Thank you kindly, Juz. Great work! We all so appreciate your doing this!

hanzz
05-18-2009, 04:37 AM
Looking great ! Thanks !

Juz
05-20-2009, 08:45 PM
As i want this product to be a huge success like everyone else here, i'm glad to contribute in my own small way.:D


Irishrose, i love your new avatar, its still obviously you, but has a lively freshness now that is just wonderful. Its not that the first one was bad mind you, just that the new one is so full of life. Great stuff!!

Boxy
05-21-2009, 02:03 AM
I just love this. You definitely inspired me to paint something and get a Giclee print done just to see the results :)
Cheers
Boxy

Juz
05-21-2009, 05:53 PM
Thanks Boxy, Your work is fabulous so I'm excited to see what you come up with. :)

Boxy
05-21-2009, 10:13 PM
Thanks :) I hope it will happen soon!! I'll do a search but do you happen to have any links to recommended Giclee printers?
Boxy

Juz
05-22-2009, 07:06 AM
Sorry Boxy i'd have no idea who offers giclee over in the UK.
I've been using http://www.calgaryoncanvas.com/ who are Canada wide, don't know if they'd be able to point you to someone over that way tho.

Best bet is to search for giclee on canvas UK in google.

As a forum it might pay to list ones we find to be reliable, speedy etc in our various corners of the world as a handy reference.

Boxy
05-22-2009, 07:13 AM
No worries. Good idea about making a list though.
Cheers
Boxy

byroncallas
05-22-2009, 09:23 AM
No worries. Good idea about making a list though.
Cheers
Boxy

The Google search "uk giclee printers" gets a google of seemingly useful hits. For those living in the UK several seem worth checking out.
Here's the search results link: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4TSHB_enMX299MX299&q=uk+giclee+printers

Boxy
05-22-2009, 09:31 AM
Thanks byroncallas :)
Boxy

Boxy
05-22-2009, 10:31 PM
Oh I just noticed, is there a particular reasone why Phthalo green is left off the list? (or even PG yellow and blue shades).
Cheers
Boxy

byroncallas
05-24-2009, 03:38 AM
Oh I just noticed, is there a particular reasone why Phthalo green is left off the list? (or even PG yellow and blue shades).
Cheers
Boxy


Yes, same question????? Available???? :)

screenpainter
05-24-2009, 11:42 AM
Thanks for these. :)

Juz
05-24-2009, 08:52 PM
Hiya Guys, this was a manual translation of the corel oil spectrum and that may be why you are missing a few. They probably just covered the most popular colours across several brands.

I found a hex value for Phthalo Green oil at blicks, converted is (R=14, G=65, B=55), which falls within CMYK gamut... try it and lemme know if its the expected tone.

List any fullnames of fav's you're missing and i'll hunt down the values so you can add them to your palette

Hi G, most welcome :)

Rowena
05-24-2009, 09:24 PM
Hi Juz,

I have found seven of the colors to be either identical or hardly differant from one another so I have a question - in the intrests of space, is it necessary to include colors which are the same but have different names?
Or perhaps I misunderstand.

Thanks ;)

Juz
05-25-2009, 11:38 AM
Hi Rowena,
This paint palette is based on traditional paint colours. There are many colours in the traditional world that are almost exactly identical and yet have different names. eg/ Bizmuth Yellow and Transparent Yellow, Permanent Green and Deep Permanent Green.

I would consider its up to each individual painter to choose whether they prefer Bizmuth Yellow to Transparent or visa versa. Both are included so that that decision making is left to the individual.

I've included a table of the values you described with their RGB descriptions beside them. As you can see there are no 'identical' inclusions, and the blue values vary quite a bit in many of the colours. So appearance on your monitor is not the best way to determine a difference in colours.

Boxy
05-25-2009, 11:43 AM
Hiya Guys, this was a manual translation of the corel oil spectrum and that may be why you are missing a few. They probably just covered the most popular colours across several brands.

I found a hex value for Phthalo Green oil at blicks, converted is (R=14, G=65, B=55), which falls within CMYK gamut... try it and lemme know if its the expected tone.

List any fullnames of fav's you're missing and i'll hunt down the values so you can add them to your palette

Hi G, most welcome :)

Thanks Juz, I'll give that a go. It was just this one colour for me :)
Boxy

Rowena
05-26-2009, 12:37 AM
Hi Rowena,
This paint palette is based on traditional paint colours. There are many colours in the traditional world that are almost exactly identical and yet have different names. eg/ Bizmuth Yellow and Transparent Yellow, Permanent Green and Deep Permanent Green.

I would consider its up to each individual painter to choose whether they prefer Bizmuth Yellow to Transparent or visa versa. Both are included so that that decision making is left to the individual.

I've included a table of the values you described with their RGB descriptions beside them. As you can see there are no 'identical' inclusions, and the blue values vary quite a bit in many of the colours. So appearance on your monitor is not the best way to determine a difference in colours.

Thanks so much for the explanation Juz.
I haven't yet printed any of my paintings, but it would be nice to think I was using proper colors for printing purposes anyway.

My query arose out my desire to have a collection that most closely mimics the real media colors with all their subtle differences. I have an old W&N chart which I scanned - hoping that I could just color-pick my way into a life-like copy. But no go. I had the same problem in that many of the colors color-pick as identical.
So far the only way I can mimic these colors is to select by eye using the bit of knowledge I have regarding the color-character of those real media colors.

So perhaps I have missed the point.
Is your collection particular to the end process of print colors regardless of how they look on my monitor?

Please forgive my ignorance, I am just trying to understand whether or not I should go to the trouble of altering each color so that it looks 'correct' on my monitor or not. My monitor has great color which true in every other respect - but as said I have never done any printing.

Thanks.

Juz
05-26-2009, 04:37 AM
Sorry if i wasn''t clear Rowena. The colour difference will be noticable at the output (print) end. Basically the RGB values can be trusted more than your monitor values, unless you have an extremely high end LCD which has been properly hardware calibrated.

Apologies, I noticed the chart i referred to didn't post so i edited that. If you notice the Blue value (3rd of the RGB values listed). You'll see that theres a lot more blue in lemon yellow than lemon as an example. This means that lemon yellow will be a cooler yellow than lemon at print.

With regards to getting your real world set working for you and choosing between one or two colours, there are 'elder statesmen' traditional painters here who are far better qualified to address that one with you than I.:o

Hope this helps.:)

No worries Boxy... lemme know if its what you expect or not.:)

byroncallas
05-26-2009, 04:55 AM
Juz, thanks for the continuing refinements in the thread. It is an instructional one - worthy of being a "sticky" in the technical forums.

Juz
05-26-2009, 05:03 AM
Thanks for your kind words once again Byroncallas, your colourful warmth comes out in more than your paintings. :)

Rowena
05-26-2009, 05:59 AM
Thats great, thanks for that Juz ... and you have now saved me from the pointless exercise of altering these colors. Its a bit disconcerting to know that I cant rely on the monitor to look 'correct', but perhaps I should find out how to calibrate my monitor...

Cheers,
Rowena.

Juz
05-27-2009, 02:33 AM
No worries Rowena, I'd recommend searching for 'monitor calibration' on youtube, theres lots of different videos of people demonstrating the different brands of hardware, as well as lots of good information and advice.

shrunkendesigner
05-27-2009, 08:29 AM
Great work!

premamaya
06-07-2009, 05:14 AM
hi im new here, and also a new user os artrage ...
was downloading the file , but dont know how to use it ....?
im using a mac ,is it maybe because of that ?

Juz
06-08-2009, 07:37 AM
Hi premamaya,
to download and install just click the Oil Spectrum.col attachment in my first post, choose save and navigate to ...Ambient Design\ArtRage 2\Resources\Colors and save there.
In artrage you will have to use the load option from the sample colours palette navigate to this same folder and choose the file.

Mac is no problems, there are mac users in this post that have it up and running

Hope this helps:)

Torie30
06-09-2009, 11:54 AM
Just control+click the application, select "show package contents" (if it says "show enclosing folder," then just click that, and then click "show package contents.)" In the package folder, click contents, then resources, then colors, and then just drag the file in and open it with the sample colors palate! If anyone needs detailed instructions, I can send you a video of my screen when downloading and opening it.

Torie30
06-09-2009, 12:00 PM
And, just wanted to say thank you Juz for such an amazing (and amazingly realistic) palate of colors!

Juz
06-09-2009, 06:52 PM
Thanks Torie30, glad you like em. :)

premamaya
06-14-2009, 10:15 PM
hy again ...
in the first place i want to thank everybody for the afford to help me ...
i was trying to folow your instructions ,but i did not work ...:O(
so Torie30 if you still want to guide me throug ? that would be great :O)
in gratitude
premamaya

Boxy
06-14-2009, 10:36 PM
Agreed, I have found that if you put the .col file in the Artrage>Resources>Colors folder, it does not show up in the load dialogue window even though it is there. The solution for me (on a mac) was to create a separate folder elsewhere on your hard drive, for example, Documents>ArtRage Resources. Put the .col file in there then load it from the color samples panel within ArtRage. It should now work.
Cheers
Boxy

Juz
06-15-2009, 06:07 AM
Sorry Ragers, did not realise that path was not working for mac users (Boxy, a big thank-you for stepping up and helping here).

Here's the instruction from DaveRage


Colour Sets

If you see a thread with a colour set you'd like to use, click on the .col ( ArtRage colour set ) file listed at the bottom of the post and save it to a handy location.

To use the new colour set, in ArtRage open your Tools menu and select 'Show Colour Samples Panel' to bring up the colour samples panel. Alternatively, you can just press the S key. Click the arrow at the top left of the colour samples panel to bring up the menu and choose 'LOod Colours' then open the new file you saved. You'll now see all the new colours there ready to use.

yachris
06-15-2009, 09:57 AM
Let me just say this, just for information's sake and to help those here who are, like me, terminally lazy :-) and don't want to change directories when they open the dialog box. The ways above work, this just saves a step.

For the Mac, put the files into (Your home) > Library > Application Support > ArtRage 2 > Resources > Colors

Then they'll show up immediately when you choose "Load Colors..." off of the triangle menu at the top-left of the Color Sampler window.

MCMalkemus
06-15-2009, 07:26 PM
This picker is sweet. Thanks. Very useful, and saves a lot of time.

Is there a tutorial on how to alter the .col file? I ask, because different brands of say, yellow ochre will be slightly different, and it should be useful to be able to load brand specific color swatches in some cases.

Oh, never mind, I just found the new swatch adder down at the bottom, this will work fine.

Boxy
06-17-2009, 07:55 PM
For the Mac, put the files into (Your home) > Library > Application Support > ArtRage 2 > Resources > Colors

Then they'll show up immediately when you choose "Load Colors..." off of the triangle menu at the top-left of the Color Sampler window.

Good one thanks :)

premamaya
06-18-2009, 01:35 AM
thanks to everybody ,this was realy a great help for me ...
finaly i made it work :O)
thanks to you ...
in gratitude
premamaya

twinklittlestar
06-18-2009, 04:05 AM
I have had Art Rage for a long time and now is the time for me to start using it. By the By i saved the .col file and tried to load in colour thingy and it wont work - correction its me! that doesn't know. Please could you guide me in the use of these wonderful cols?

Ta
:)

Juz
06-18-2009, 10:00 AM
Hi Twinklittlestar,

To use the new colour set, in ArtRage open your Tools menu and select 'Show Colour Samples Panel' to bring up the colour samples panel. Alternatively, you can just press the S key. Click the arrow at the top left of the colour samples panel to bring up the menu and choose 'Load Colours'. You will then need to navigate to where you saved the '.col' file, choose it and your colours should appear in the Samples Palette.

Hope this helps :)

@Yachris, thanks heaps for making the mac path easy (yay you!)
@MCMalkemus and Premamaya, thanks, and glad you have them working

Juz
06-20-2009, 12:46 PM
Hope the image below helps anyone still struggling to get this palette to work :)

Silentman
07-18-2009, 04:31 PM
Thanks Very Muchly Juzzie, that's exactly the problem i was having.

All solved now thanks to you, not only do you provide the colour pallettes but the how to as well, what a women http://deephousepage.com/smilies/praise2.gif

StephenFoster
09-03-2009, 02:21 AM
Hi Guys, does anyone have a smaller more restricted subset of this palette that a starter would buy in art shop?

for example if I was painting landscapes I'm sure I wouldn't buy 50 + tubes of point.

Thanks

Silentman
09-03-2009, 10:33 AM
Best off loading up the full one and relaxing and or making your own from it, don't think there's a lighter version, not that i've heard of :)

StephenFoster
09-03-2009, 08:27 PM
Best off loading up the full one and relaxing and or making your own from it, don't think there's a lighter version, not that i've heard of :)
You know Silent-man as soon as I posted that I thought the same thing. I was guilty of over thinking again ;)

I think that I should have asked what's the most common paints people buy in the real world.

Silentman
09-03-2009, 09:00 PM
ROFL, i've done it myself in the wishes for ArtRage forum section lol, something to do with masking tape lol :o

No worries :D