View Full Version : White marker
07-07-2006, 09:12 PM
I updated to 2.11 not realizing that the white marker functioned differently.
Anyhow, now it acts more like an eraser and that does horrible, horrible things to my drawings.
I tend to use the marker to highlight and move the ink around. Now it just ... erases it. *horrified*
I can somewhat fake it by combining oil with the marker, but it doesn't look right when I try to blend. I'll probably just do a reinstall of 2.05. But I just thought I'd let you know.
07-07-2006, 09:38 PM
It just don't blend. It marks over or erases, but the blending... it is gone. *weeps*
*wanders off to mourn*
Dont' worry, I'll figure something out. But... dang.
07-07-2006, 09:54 PM
Even if I use layers, with opacity set to 100% the white marker, instead of drawing white, draws a color (usually darker) over the layer underneath.
that can't be right.
I downloaded another fullversion (paid for) and it was still 2.11.
I guess I'll have to fiddle with things as the are, but the 2.05 version of the white felt marker gave better "watercolor" effects because it blended (rather than erased or sometimes maybe lightened the color or, if I had it on an opaque level, painted white, which I could then merge layer down and blend in again.
On the other hand, I do like the variable size of the marker pressure and I can appreciate what happens with softness and wetness.
And, yes, the white does show white... after it erases everything. On the other hand, as a point of weirdness, If I use the white felt marker on a black background, it doesn't show at all.
I recognize it's the weekend. I'm not demanding a quick fix or anything. I'm just moaning because I should have realized it would change.
07-07-2006, 10:11 PM
I am my own drama!
Well, I think I've figured a way around this - sort of.
Of course, layers come into play, but I'll probably end up using the oil/chalk for white and blending by layers or by not using white. If I go with the next value of color, it appears to behave in a similar way (as far as "blending," did in the past.) It'll work. Sorry for the wonk.
07-07-2006, 11:29 PM
Yes, you're right - we did make a large change to the way the white marker works.
In 2.11, a white marker works more like a water pen, than the previous markers did. We were concerned that the previous versions of the marker weren't really like a marker pen. The current one more closely models what real-world marker pens would do.
In general, when we do upgrades, we try not to change too dramatically the way any tools work as artists get to know a tool and how it works.
07-08-2006, 10:40 AM
Thank you, again, AndyRage. I appreciated your comments in the Gallery.
And, of course, last night I remembered that I had an old, nearly crapped out drive.... with 2.05 on it. So I attached it, grabbed the folder, and the drive died on me.
But I now have both versions - and legal too since I bought a second download yesterday to see if that would fix things. Which I'm sure it did fix things in a destiny kind of way. Before I could not have attempted that human face (which I posted later to the waterdrops post as a response to fashmir).
Anyhow, the 2.11 does do wonderful things, as does the 2.05. I think, as I was semi-dreaming and plotting last night, that I realized it was a bit like having two different kinds of marker sets. Sweet!
Thanks for everything. I really, really love this software.
07-10-2006, 03:32 AM
Hmmmm. I wonder ... actually, I was having an issue last night with a drawing ... I was coloring a cartoon character, using different levels for different color areas so as not to blend them together, using the marker tools. On one of the layers I wanted to color the character's eyes, teeth, and other details white and opaque so they would hide the background; ultimately I had to use spots of oil paint, which don't really work the same.
Just wondering ... I know in general the goal of ArtRage is to mimic natural media as much as possible and I wouldn't want to change that, but would there be anything WRONG with having a special 'opaque' mode for the white marker, or a marker-like tool (gel pen?) that would work like a marker but with opaque white ink? It's not quite real-world realistic, but this IS digital media we're talking about with all the added advantages, and it could still work LIKE a marker does, just with opaque white ink instead of some other color.
Just a thought? A hopeful thought? :)
(And it's not totally unprecedented. I notice that drawing with a yellow marker on a layer on top of a black marker will still have some amount of opacity to it, even tho in the Real World it would just spoil your yellow marker.)
07-10-2006, 04:13 AM
I won't object if I can still get to the colorless blender (white marker). I would'nt want to give up a technique I've exploited to good effect just so someone doesn't have to change their paper grain to 0% and grab a white crayon.
07-10-2006, 02:34 PM
Whilst I agree with Fashmir, that is a lot of steps to go through which can ruin the feel of the program. I am definitely in the click counting group of users.
Since the grain setting is very important to how a lot of the tools work, I hope that if any type of brush preset system is added to ArtRage then it can be extended to include paper settings.
Whatever Ambient decide to do, I think it would be useful to have some 'digital' tools. Perhaps the tool selector could have two modes natural media and digital tools.
07-11-2006, 04:03 AM
Fashmir: Yeah, I sometimes use a colorless blender too, and I do appreciate the real-media qualities of ArtRage's tools. IF the developers decided to allow for some kind of "digital white opaque marker," it would hopefully be either an option that can be switched on and off, or a separate tool. Not sure which would function easier from a UI standpoint, but ... well, that's just my two cents. :)
Also, I'd hope that even an opaque white marker would still blend with other markers to get gradations and such ... I haven't tried it, but I'm not sure mixing colored markers with a crayon would yield the same blending effects ...
07-13-2006, 04:16 PM
I haven't tried this myself, but years ago when I would do renderings with markers I would use a white color pencil when I needed white for highlights. It may not work for large areas, but for highlights it might work better than the chalk or crayon tool.
Personally, I'm still learning my way around ArtRage's tools, and starting with v2.11 I haven't had time to get used to anything.
07-13-2006, 04:29 PM
Opaque would be good, like gouache with water colours.
With real Acrylics I used to use a Pentel correcting pen for a bright slightly chunky white.
07-15-2006, 04:14 PM
So why not include both kinds of white pen? In fact, it sounds like people were treating the "old" white pen as a way to apply a little white paint, whereas ArtRage wanted the "new" white pen to work more like the solvent type pens. If you realize the difference between gel pens and solvent pens, that makes... yep... a whole NEW family of pen.
Gel pens are much more like very fine, pressure-insensitive paint applicators. You add opaque paint, but it keeps a nice consistent (usually thin) stroke.
The first gel pens to market were those silver and gold metallic paint pens. But now you can go to Wal-Mart and find a bunch of colors, often of the psychedelic blacklight-happy variety (somewhere between pastel and full saturation, secondary hues more than primary hues).
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