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Rick
03-05-2008, 12:30 PM
The start.. Hope you will all like it when finished..

Jim Walsh
03-05-2008, 04:15 PM
The orange and grapes look fantastic.

screenpainter
03-05-2008, 08:18 PM
From the looks of that orange and grapes it looks to be another beauty. :D

D Akey
03-05-2008, 11:04 PM
Suggestion about rendering Rick,

If you really look at a sharp, sharp studio photo of an orange, in which the lighting is very controlled, you will see that the pitted texture of the skin is most pronounced at the border between the highlight and the mid-tone. It's not so apparent in the highlight itself, nor in the mid tone area. And that is all you really need -- to attend to the areas of transition.

This is very useful to know when you are rendering an object because you can perfectly describe a surface of that kind without having to put in every pore everywhere on the skin. It makes for an elegant image and you can keep your color clean and detail more optical as opposed to mental.

That simplicity is something that really can work for you, as you can see in how perfect your other wine bottle and glass was. I think that painting was successful in large part because you left out a lot of information and made your statement without distraction.

So this simplicity I am suggesting with using the lighting to describe the orange skin will maintain that kind of masterful look. It's important to be able to get to the essence of the picture. You can create a lot more in a free way that lets you attend to other aspects of picture making.

Rick
03-06-2008, 02:26 AM
Thank you "D", for your comments, I respect you opinions.. I'm not quite sure what you are telling me though.. Do I need more pitted area, or less? Or should I have what I do have in a different area of the orange? I kind of thought, in the last wine painting, I went into to much detail.. Could I do less detail in this and still have a good rendering? Sure would save hours.. So far with this painting, it has taken me about an hour on each grape.. But most of my paintings are very time consuming.. Thanks again, not being trained, I need all the advice I can get.. Here I have smoothed some portions of the orange and added pitted marks to the area I think you refered to.. Please let me know what you think.. Thanks..

D Akey
03-06-2008, 04:09 AM
I just looked round for some picture examples of what I'm referring to, but naturally when I want to find something I haven't looked at for 20 years, it's hidden itself.

You're doing really, really good. So don't get self-conscious about what I said. You're going to get faster just by doing it a lot. You're going to find your own shortcuts by experience.

A couple things --

Mechanically speaking, there are different kinds of orange peels, some where the pits are really low, and the kind that is really pulpy like a golf ball.

If you look at shots of an orange, you can see those where they have a lot of texture, some with lots of irregularities, some with scrapes and all that. That's photography talking. When you do a painting, you can straight copy a photo. That's fine. And people will like it. And for sure you will learn what makes those things look like they do.

But some of a painter's artistry is in perfecting the image, and getting the essence and eliminating the extraneous. Some people call that mastery.

I'm going to go broad and general now, so this falls under the 'for what it's worth' category:

There's an important thing that straight copy rendering doesn't address, and that's what one chooses to include in a painting. With a rendering, one puts it all in. But how far one can and does choose to back off from that is where your voice comes in. Different people get off on different things.

Food people would want delicious, perfect looking fruit, and anything that makes it look quirky is not as appetizing and therefore less desirable to them. It doesn't sell product, which is their area of concern.

Other artists could care less about making it look delicious and might look at a rotting orange next to a bum in an alley as a thing of comment.

And each kind of artist finds the 'shortcuts' that nail what they're after.

Let me leave you with this: If you can say something with 300 strokes or with 30 or even with 3 -- your answer will define the look of your work. It's all good.

But there's a common thread among the arts that determines quality to many: an artist or a writer of a higher level will be able to look at some thing or some situation and see something special -- particular relationships, how it all fits, what serves that understanding/look, and what distracts and clutters.

That's where an artist finds his voice. If it's about getting something photo real, then your selection of what you put in the picture is going to be important. And in the rendering, what you can leave out and still retain that essence is where you may want to go as well.

That's why the wine bottle and glass was so great. You only included what worked.

Your start is very good. And your experience is going to draw to you answers to how to do things from the world at large, whether you stumble over a flier with coupons that comes in the mail, or you are in a book store looking at how-to books or Communication Arts magazines to see how other people handled similar problems.

Sorry I can't help you right now with how to simplify your rendering. I exceeded what I can communicate without visual references. If I come across it, I'll post it.

Rick
03-06-2008, 04:51 AM
Thank you "D" for all the comments and information.. Lots to digest there.. I think 35 years of precision metal working, in temperature controlled rooms to + - 2 deg., and working to tollerances of .000001 with precision machinery has formed me to be a precision kind of person.. Not having artistic talent, but perhaps only mechanical talent (using artrage tools), I tend to fall back on 35 years of doing.. All I ever see is precision.. You know what they say about old habits and old dogs.. But I have fun, and I take your comments to heart, and try to think more in a way of taking artistic liberties.. Thanks again..

ScottF
03-06-2008, 05:57 AM
Your precision is what sets off your work. I, for one, admire it greatly.

Ive got to learn to have more patience. So far, I start with something, and after a few sessions I get bored. I hope to produce something one of these days that is carefully done.

Rick
03-06-2008, 06:48 AM
Thank you Scott..