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Thread: Watercolour Paper Quick Drying

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Watercolour Paper Quick Drying

    In Corel Painter there is an option of drying the watercolour paint by pressing some keys on the keyboard. By "drying" the watercolor paint the next stroke does not interact the wet way any more. It becomes wet-on-dry instead of wet-on-wet. I love that Painter feature. It makes WC painting a breeze.

    So why not in Artrage? I would love to see the same feature by just pressing a key (D for dry would make sense).

    OK? In Artrage 4 then!

  2. #2
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    Well, Art Rages water color tools are behind Painter's so i am waiting for the day it catches up and produces fractal dispersion on a wet surface for one thing and less hard pixels.

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    The way you make Wet on Dry watercolors in Artrage (or any kind of non-interactive new paint you want to lay down) is to make a new layer and paint on top. That should be able to do it. An aggressive use of layers (making new ones, changing blend mode to Multiply, painting, and then dropping, then blending if you want), is pretty much absolutely critical to good watercolor work in Artrage, IMO.

    I actually don't mind using layers instead of Painters "Dry Watercolor Layer" button. I find Painter's bizarre use three different, largely unintegrated Watercolor modes (Digital Watercolors, Watercolors, and Wet Watercolors) hard to understand and use.

    I just wish I could customize Artrage more so that, for example, at the beginning of a watercolor painting session, I could set things so that each new layer would automatically be the Blend Mode I want (Multiply), or that there was a button I could setup (onscreen? as a key command?) that would do more than one thing-- say, make a new layer, change the blend mode, and use a specific Layer Texture. These are repetitive and time consuming things that require using fly out and drop down menus that I have to do over and over and over again in Artage if I'm doing watercolor work.

  4. #4
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    Using the Eraser tool, set to use 0% pressure, can be used to dry areas of wet Watercolor paint. In my attached example image (at the bottom of this post), the large blue area of paint was done using the default watercolor tool settings. I then used the Eraser tool to dry the right hand side of the paint. Using the Default watercolor tool settings, I went over the blue paint with yellow. As you can see, the yellow paint being dragged over the dry side, picks up the blue paint, making green, but retains a dry edge, like it would in real watercolors. On the left side, where the blue paint is still wet, the yellow paint bleeds out at the edges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve B View Post
    I just wish I could customize Artrage more so that, for example, at the beginning of a watercolor painting session, I could set things so that each new layer would automatically be the Blend Mode I want (Multiply), or that there was a button I could setup (onscreen? as a key command?) that would do more than one thing-- say, make a new layer, change the blend mode, and use a specific Layer Texture.


    You could create a new layer, give it the Multiply Blend and texture you want, and then use it as a template. Just give it a name, so that you don't actually use it, then use the Duplicate Layer option, rather then Add New Layer, to make a new layer with those traits. You can create a shortcut for the Duplicate Layer feature, so then it'd just be a matter of selecting the blank layer, and hitting the shortcut key (and maybe moving the layer to certain area of the stack).


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    Nothing is easy to the unwilling.

  5. #5
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    Regarding pixels on edges - Check the paper texture you're using. The watercolour strokes don't disperse 'fractally' because that's not how the real medium works, they disperse based on the texture they flow over and if the paper texture is fine grain, the limitations of a 16 bit surface map will create lots of densely packed 'hard' pixels. Wider grain with more gradation between high and low points produces a smoother falloff as the medium disperses.
    Matt
    ArtRage UI
    Ambient Design.

  6. #6
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    What i meant was when the medium is still wet and flowing over the surface i guess before it disperses to the edge of the medium. What i am talking about in inner-dispersion. It creates almost channels. Here is an example from MOXI.

    http://visgraph.cse.ust.hk/MoXi/images/flames.png

    http://visgraph.cse.ust.hk/MoXi/imag...s%20leaves.png

    http://visgraph.cse.ust.hk/MoXi/imag...0blue_moxi.png

    http://visgraph.cse.ust.hk/MoXi/images/planet.png


    Could you guys go for 32bit surface map? Are there certain limitations there?

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    Ahhh, Moxie. The great undeveloped digital watercolor program. There are some amazing videos available on it on Youtube. I'll admit that I think there's a lot that the Artrage team could learn from it about how digital watercolors could work. I think they have a good engine for relatively dry watercolor work. Clearly the "fractal" discussion is a bit different, and is about how wet watercolors work and interact with a layer of water that's been layed down first.

    The thing that becomes clear from the videos about Moxie, is that it understood that Watercolor pigment, when you lay it down, interacts with other things. In Artrage that feels mostly limited to the texture of the canvas and a little bit to the mixing of color with the existing already-layed-down pigment, which is really cool, but not far enough for me yet, to really simulate watercolor work. In particular, wet watercolor work and very dry watercolor brush work seem limited.

    I've commented before in the Suggestions forum that what I'd love to see is for Artrage to introduce the ability to
    a) lay down water in varying degrees of "density" with the brush before one layed down color, and that that would affect how Watercolor pigment dispersed, much as in the Moxie videos
    b) or other things that might interact with watercolor when layed down first- masking fluid and the way pigment pools around it, etc. , or
    c) how things like salt or rubbing alcohol react with pigment when they are layed down, after pigment has been used. They don't just function like an eraser tool, but actually interact with watercolors differently, dispersing in different ways (or barely dispersing at all, if its pretty dry), etc. depending on how wet the medium is.

    I think this would go a long long way to making Watercolors really come into their own in Artrage, the way I feel the Oils already are. Moxie is, in many ways, a wonderful example of what digital watercolors could look like. Painter does do some pretty cool stuff too, but its a terrible program to work with, IMO. I'd much rather pay to have it developed in Artrage. I understand it must pose lots of insane problems in terms of coding it, but I see no issue in asking for what I want. You guys have done a lot of stuff that I thought was impossible....
    Last edited by Steve B; 04-01-2012 at 05:58 PM.

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    Yeah, because the technology is simply not there yet as far as public available software goes, the good stuff is in research limbo and seemingly much of it never to be made available. This is why i am just not into using digital art software most of the time because it never looks and acts real enough, again the public software. It ticks me off that MoXi and Project Gustav may never see the light of day.

    http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/gustav/

    http://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Laura...Project-Gustav

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFwi0...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwcYP2KMgFc

    http://repository.ust.hk/dspace/hand...ll+item+record

    http://students.expression.edu/mahal...6/13/its-moxi/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF-U74bp0D4

    I'd like to go digital if the technology was there and of large tablets were more affordable but for now i am sticking to traditional methods for a few years. I'll see what ArtRage provides then. I still like where it is going and have a lot of hope for it.

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    Yeah, Nelson Chu is the guy behind Moxi, and, it seems, is very involved in Project Gustav as well. I wish stuff like this was released. I don't understand why its still in limbo. I'd love it if Artrage could integrate more of these kinds of features.

    If I had to get a better desktop and a Wacom tablet that had tilt and barrel control in order to do that stuff, I'd do it. Right now though, I just don't feel like there's enough out there to really warrant it. In some of those videos, I feel like you really see some of the applications for it.

  10. #10
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    I think in the case of MoXi, they just needed investment to implement the technology somehow. Some buyer i think for continuing development and possibly to use the code for other software i think?

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