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sar
03-29-2006, 06:14 AM
Hi all,
First, thank you guys at Ambient for making such a wonderfull little software! Artrage is amazing! 8)

Ok, that said, I've experienced some annoying slow performing actions with artrage. I usually work with average size canvas (let's say 3000x2000 px) and:
-big size brushes are awfully slow (especially the roller, airbrush too)
-loading time seams really long too
-and, most annoying, any changes with layers (on/off, transparency changes) take years! barely usable.

As a reference, I'm comparing with Photoshop, where enabling/disabling a layer is instantaneous. :?

I'm using artrage full, on a powerbook g4@1.25 with mac os 10.4.

Thanks again, keep up the good work!

-Sar

PVIllustration
03-29-2006, 09:35 AM
That's rather wierd. I'm using a p42.8 at home and the brushes are all very fast. Actually there are no lag what so ever, even with brushes at 100% and I always work at that size you mention or higher.

Switching layers on and off takes a sec or so, but that is not really of a concern to me... as I usually have only one or two layers. Three tops.

Im running artrage2 (full) on a 2.8p4 (hyperthreaded) on xp pro. 1gig of ddr2 ram.

maybe its just a mac vs. pc thing? I have no idea what a powerbook G4 relates to in terms of power of intel processor..?

AndyRage
03-29-2006, 10:45 AM
ArtRage isn't as efficient in its memory management as Photoshop, and we're also doing a lot more work compositing layers - we have to apply a 3D lighting effect to the paint and canvas as we go.
One of the biggest things to improve speed can be to add more memory.
Per layer, as well as colour information, we have to store the bump map, shininess and reflectivity, as well as the wetness of the paint. That's a lot of information per layer.
Also, make sure your hard-drive isn't going into a power-saving mode. We use the harddrive extensively for saving 'undo' information, so if your laptop is powering it down to save power, it has to power up every time we save undo information.
In general, ArtRage will definitely be slower than Photoshop when you're doing large strokes. ArtRage is doing a lot more work mixing colours and applying 3D lighting to the resultant painted surface. As ArtRage matures, we'll put in more advanced memory-management systems for dealing with large canvases.

Thanks for letting us know you're getting low performance. We will do what we can to help as ArtRage continues to be developed.

AndyRage.

DaveyJJ
03-29-2006, 11:17 AM
sar,

I always found Photoshop slow on any G4 laptop I ownded, regardless of RAM. Moving up to my current G5 iMac made all the difference in the world. I'm very happy with the large brushes/textures I use in Photoshop, and ArtRage just flies on this machine. Simply flies. I work at those sizes too. Once they make ArtRage a Universal Binary for the core duo Intel Mac Apple laptops, I think it'll scream, even if Apple puts out a low end core duo iBook replacement at 1.66GHz. Upgrade then??

sar
03-29-2006, 12:51 PM
ok, I see. Thanks for your help guys. Nice to see the community is so reactive!
Andy, thanks for your explanation: I understand how artrage painting engine is far more complicated than photoshop brushes, so it is slower. A bit disappointing though... especially the layers on/off lag.

I currently have 512Mb on my pwrbook. Maybe should I add more, or maybe should I wait for one of these new intel macs.... whatever.... :(

Cheers,
-Sar

DaveyJJ
03-29-2006, 01:55 PM
ok, I see. Thanks for your help guys. Nice to see the community is so reactive!
Andy, thanks for your explanation: I understand how artrage painting engine is far more complicated than photoshop brushes, so it is slower. A bit disappointing though... especially the layers on/off lag.

I currently have 512Mb on my pwrbook. Maybe should I add more, or maybe should I wait for one of these new intel macs.... whatever.... :(

Cheers,
-Sar

The jump from 512MB to 1GB of RAM in that laptop (I've owned two) is significant and very noticeable. If you can afford the under US$100 upgrade, I'd do it.

Just remember that the system itself can be using up to 1/2 of the 512 for itself and Adobe recommended that to use PS effectively you'd want to have 3x image size the RAM available to get the most out of the program. So if your PS image is 100MB in size, you'd need 300MB of free RAM to work properly.

The current Intel MacBookPro is, in Canada, an expensive machine at either $2300 (1.83 core duo) or $2900 (but no more expensive than similarly equipped PClaptops sproting the core duo chips). Rumour has it that the new iBook replacements will be the slower 1.66GHZ core duo chips but will still far outperform your current G4 laptop at a very good price (I'm hoping for about CDN$1599-1699). You might want to hold out until after April 1st (Apple's 30th anniversary) to see if these finally get announced.

When ArtRage gets updated to a universal binary to take full advantage of the Intel core duo chips (rather than running via Rosetta) it will scream, performance wise. Can't wait for that update. Good luck!

DaveRage
03-29-2006, 11:14 PM
One quick thing I should note as well. If you're using a Wacom Graphire 4 Tablet with your Mac, disable the "click sounds" option in the Wacom settings for a dramatic performance increase.

el_diablo
04-05-2006, 07:46 AM
Pentium IV 2.8 here, and i tried to push AR as far as it goes. It seems that the biggest canvas size i can make is about 8000x5000. Given enough RAM most tools work pretty quick, at least as quick as Painter if not quicker. Airbrush is however slow, even at smaller resolutions.

Also I would love AR to keep brush sizes relative to canvas. This may introduce a problem in small brush sizes tho.

sar
04-05-2006, 08:36 AM
hum, what about layers on/off and transparency? Is it snappy?

BTW, what about a cursor for trasparency in the layer palette (ala photoshop), instead of pulling down a menu, setting the transparency, and THEN seeing the result? (That means no realtime viewing of the setting)

I feel like working with layers beeing quite difficult : responsiveness is really bad, and some features are definetly missing (blending mode, moving tool)

and why is the proporion of the thumbnail preview in the layer palette fixed? If you're working with some extra high or pano-like paintings, the thumbnail is all stretched! very disappointing....

capitalj
04-08-2006, 03:36 AM
One quick thing I should note as well. If you're using a Wacom Graphire 4 Tablet with your Mac, disable the "click sounds" option in the Wacom settings for a dramatic performance increase.

Thanks for the heads up - my PowerBook was powerless until I disabled the click sounds.

j

eobet
04-21-2006, 07:02 PM
Does this mean that the free version of ArtRage, that doesn't have layers, is faster than the commercial version?

Also, is there be an option to still get the brush bristles texture, but without the bump map? Like this effect, which I think is either done by hand, or not with the free version of ArtRage...

http://weeks.free.fr/Eros%20Works/MesPeinturesNumeriques/Forums/perroqFinal-ar1f.jpg

Original link here: http://forums.sijun.com/viewtopic.php?t=40483

AndyRage
04-21-2006, 08:08 PM
The free version and the full version use exactly the same stroke and rendering engine. If you have a single-layered document in the full version, it should be almost identical in performance to the free version. As soon as you start adding layers, there is additional time used to composite the layers together as you work. If you add metalic paint into a layer it also will reduce the speed of rendering as metalics take a bit more effort to produce.

AndyRage.

sbug51
04-22-2006, 04:44 AM
eobet i think that it is made by hand, you should ask weeks about it... thats the beauty of artrage, as its you and the painting :)

eobet
04-22-2006, 08:34 AM
What brush has he used then? I don't like the 3D effect of the standard brush, and I would like to have proper bristles showing at the end of a stroke.