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View Full Version : Should we use 'Mouse Mode' only?



AndyRage
11-05-2006, 09:50 PM
One of the things in ArtRage that causes much confusion is the 'Use Mouse Mode' option.

ArtRage, by default, uses high-resolution Tablet packet coordinate information for generating its strokes. But in certain circumstances those coordinates are incorrectly reported. As a solution, we put a 'Use Mouse Mode' into the menu to use mouse coordinates instead of Tablet packet coordinates. The mouse coordinates are always correctly reported, but aren't 'sub-pixel accurate'.

I would like some feedback from the people using graphics tablets. From the ArtRage 'Edit/Preferences' menu, select 'Use Mouse Mode'.
This will switch to using mouse coordinate input. This is the way almost every other graphics application uses tablet input.
Use ArtRage for a while with this setting. Does it change the 'feel' of ArtRage? Does it make it more difficult or easier or just the same to do your work? Do you even notice a difference!

In a future build, I will probably remove that menu option and leave it 'hard wired' to use mouse input coordinates. It would solve whole bunches of confusions and allow me to put twice as much effort into producing smooth stroke paths from the single coordinate input pipeline.

djmez
11-06-2006, 01:10 AM
I am currently at school, where I use ArtRage 2.2 Free with a Wacom Intuos1 6x8 and a WinXP Dual Xeon 2.0 GHz with 4GB Ram, FireGL 64MB video. After a cursory investigation (pardon!), I cannot tell the difference with "Mouse Mode" on and off. Is there a tool that would particularly highlight the differences?
At home I have ArtRage full with an Intuos3 on WinXP -- is it possible I'll notice a difference there and not here? If so, I'll try again this evening.
I am interested in the stroke response of ArtRage--it's quite good but there's still no Sketchbook-speed brush. The airbrush, even on full pressure, autoflow off, colored blackest black ("none more black"), doesn't put down enough tone in a single stroke to match the Sketchbook pencil. You guys seem so much more clever than the Alias folks--do they have a trick that you don't? Perhaps all the texture and mixing formulas slow down the stroke processing?

Selby
11-06-2006, 04:51 AM
is this a windows persons only question cause on my mac version of ArtRage it dosent seem to have a mouse mode option in the edit>pref menu?



Selby

thesleepless
11-06-2006, 05:27 AM
hmm i think a more suitable name for the option would help remove the confusion. 'use mouse mode' isn't very informative or accurate. on reading that i'd assume that it'd make my tablet stop working and just use the mouse. perhaps something like 'disable high prescision tablet mode'?

heikki
11-06-2006, 06:27 AM
:)

Hei, Andy.

I use both. I draw with mouse and then i use pen-tablet wacom small one. And i change those tools at same image many times. I have been that selection 'use mouse only' on-position and i havent change it. (Not remember or notice). I make short test and dont see any different. I think that if it is possible to make so that it is automatic so that if paint using tools mouse or pen program select then it's best accurace or mode automatically. Then it is most comfortable to use. My thought only, art-hobbyist,,,,,,, professional daily use,,,,i dont know :?:

---
Other thing what i notice is that selection 'hide taskbar in full screen mode' so i mention on this (i forget it later). I keep it selected. But when open program it dont work, must select off and then on again, and then after that i must move mouse on the taskbar and click ones then it goes behind the canvas. I use windows selection 'keep the taskbar top of other windows.) When windows selection is off then work ok. Can it be problem on my windows?
---

Thanks the user question Andy of this mouse selection issue. Many program makers dont make these kind of product developming questions customers or/and users. Good work. :D

:)

djmez
11-06-2006, 06:35 AM
Hey, this is great! The hidden taskbar in fullscreen mode makes for a perfectly immersive experience! I'm an idiot for not trying that before.
Rock on, ArtRage.

halley
11-06-2006, 01:55 PM
I use both. I draw with mouse and then i use pen-tablet wacom small one. And i change those tools at same image many times. I have been that selection 'use mouse only' on-position and i havent change it. (Not remember or notice).

The issue isn't whether you use a mouse or a tablet. It has nothing to do with mice, really. There are some tablets for which the program can use two underlying methods for reporting tablet data: the badly named "mouse mode" and also "tablet mode."

heikki
11-06-2006, 05:18 PM
I use both. I draw with mouse and then i use pen-tablet wacom small one. And i change those tools at same image many times. I have been that selection 'use mouse only' on-position and i havent change it. (Not remember or notice).

The issue isn't whether you use a mouse or a tablet. It has nothing to do with mice, really. There are some tablets for which the program can use two underlying methods for reporting tablet data: the badly named "mouse mode" and also "tablet mode."

:)

Okey. Now i understand better. :? I think so. :wink:

:)

Rkngel
11-06-2006, 08:50 PM
My Cintiq responds much the same in both modes..but I can tell a difference only if I actually use the mouse. I wonder if the tablet drivers overide the program settings when you have the program in the custom settings profile. I have an AR profile in my Cintiq that changes the pressure sensitivity and eraser feel....does that override AR program defaults or work in addition to/with??

cripster
11-07-2006, 03:15 AM
Hi Andy i tried both and for me i can't seem to tell the differance, both did the same thing

Fashmir
11-07-2006, 04:49 AM
Andy I've used it both ways and I have never experienced a difference. I use a Wacom Intuos 2 at home and a Cintiq at work and mouse mode works fine on both. I love the idea of tossing out confusion and distraction and focusing on core improvements in one pipeline. This program continues to be one of the primary pleasures I devote time to both on the job and as my passion out side of work. Thanks for that.

le-mec
11-07-2006, 10:15 AM
I think it's a valuable option to be able to NOT use mouse-mode. The difference is quite subtle, but I feel that the mouse-mode suffers a great degree of 'nickeling'.

justG
11-08-2006, 04:41 AM
Wow. The circular scribbles look the same to me, but the black strokes above are very obviously different.

And ya, I don't see the option either. I didn't realise 'til Selby mentioned it that it wasn't there (OS X 10.4.8).

DaveRage
11-08-2006, 04:54 AM
Ahh yes, that question was left unanswered sorry. This is a Windows-only option. The tablet handling is done differently on OS X.

justG
11-08-2006, 05:03 AM
Ah, lovely, don't have to worry about it then. Thanks, Dave. Might check it out on the PC tomorrow.

le-mec
11-08-2006, 06:33 AM
You might notice a tiny bit of 'jaggediness' in the curves with Mouse Mode on. I'm a line-nut who got ArtRage to learn a little about painting, so even the most minute changes in line quality mean a lot to me.

heikki
11-08-2006, 11:59 AM
:)

Fine points le-mec and hmm. opinion presentation with image.

I must start to use that mouse off selection with my pen. Hmm. i dont notice it before now and it is was selected mouse mode on all time on my this year art-rage painting period.... :roll: stupid me.

Thanks, le-mec.

:)

Algbuk
11-18-2006, 09:06 PM
I Find the non mouse mode makes a marginally smoother curve on my intuos
I would prefer to use this mode.

cripster
11-18-2006, 10:52 PM
With my tablet in mouse mode i find it hard to control the speed even with the speed set right down

just my 10cents

isolationism
11-21-2006, 06:18 PM
I appreciate how removing unwanted features could make it easier to maintain the software and improve existing functionality--but I think I will agree with the majority here that there are what appear to be some interpolation issues with the mouse mode that may negatively impact some people's drawing styles.

It also feels to me that somehow the pressure sensitivity is more gradual in 'tablet mode', jumpier in 'mouse mode'.

Of course, if this is precisely what you're talking about fixing, then maybe it's not as evil as what is perceived here. I'm on the fence on this one, but I'd have to say that until the mouse mode was a bit more polished, I'd rather be able to stick with tablet mode, too.